So…could the grad and professional programs make these waivers institutional need based grants? Many of these students have no or low incomes.
My brand new (2018) BS CS major is getting $100K+ plus $$$$ stock options. The 7 year opportunity cost makes me think that a CS PhD doesn’t really pay you back. 7 years from now my kiddo will likely be earning a lot more. Now he’s from a very good school, and very smart 
Just the kind that could likely be accepted to a top PhD program if he were so inclined. Which he’s not.
No, income taxes cannot be included in the COA, even with PJ. (I work in financial aid.)
@thumper1 , I would love to say I think it’s strange that the other stuff is included … but unfortunately, I am no longer surprised by what is happening (just very, very disheartened). I keep wondering when I will wake up from this nightmare, because surely, it cannot be real.
@thumper1: but the point was that there was no or little “need based aid” in graduate education. It’s all merit-based. It doesn’t matter whether your parents make 40K or 400K, your “scholarship” (ie., tuition waiver and stipend) depend solely on your GPA, classes taken, essays, recommendations, and GRE scores.
Well sure, but that is bcos there are 300+ law schools, some barely accredited.
Uh, not all. Take #20, for example. Approximately 25% of graduates from Notre Dame’s Law School do not have a job that requires a JD within 9 months of graduation. The # for Iowa, tied at #20, is 30%.
That is a LOT of law school debt to incur for a 25% chance of not getting a job for which you just spent 3 years studying for.
Which also supports Roth’s point. (If it wasn’t over saturated, it would have to raise starting pay.)
@MYOS1634 oh I agree…grad school waivers and stipends are merit based.
BUT couldn’t that change?? Especially since many professional school folks and many grad school folks are low enough income to qualify for need based aid?
It’s a possibility!!
Well, it’d be a problem for the “CC middle class” kids between the ages of 21 and 24, but starting at 24, sure. Need-based aid, with merit on top or instead. And thus, a “need based” or “merit based” full tuition scholarship, untaxable. I have no idea how universities will handle that. We have no idea if they will, or even if they can. Right now, this is disrupting a system that works rather well for no visible gains, except for the private plane and golf course owners.
@bluebayou:
It doesn’t mean these graduates don’t find a good-paying job within a year though.
But, yes, there’s an oversupply of lawyers. Still, those starting these studies do so with the intent of earning more than with their BA. (Granted, some may go to a random law school because they don’t know what to do and they don’t have a job! However this is not the case for the funded PHD candidates. All have terrific profiles.)
The market is over saturated to a certain extent: there ARE jobs. Plenty of them. They’re just poorly paid. Half the jobs in this industry were converted from decently paid (though still well below medical doctors’ levels - but then again, no debt, so it evens out the first few years) to “slingshot paid” precarious positions. Not because of over saturation, but rather because it’s an easy way to decrease costs quickly - this became evident after the 2008+ budget cuts.
So, the jobs are still there, but they’ve lost stability and pay. (Kind of like the GM employees who in its heydey had full benefits, two weeks of paid vacation, could retire with full pension at 55 and were paid the equivalent of $29 an hour in today’s dollars, v. $14 an hour jobs with no benefits nowadays.)
My GSRA funding didn’t come from the university last semester. It came out of my advisor’s grant. She’s given an amount of money that must be used for tuition waiver and stipend.
How would THAT work with this new proposal? (I also think you can’t make this type of funding tied to need-based.)
Also, many of us have partners that work and make money. Need-based won’t work for a lot of phd students.
And for those who stand to inherit large sums from their families.
Really…this is disgusting.
It is very short sighted. We will lose YEARS of being competitive with R &D and our companies and research universities will feel the hit.
My daughter is at a top public ivy doing her PhD a medical science. What she does is hard and very time consuming and stressful. She is not doing this because she finished undergrad and liked the life of the student, “life of the mind.” She is committed to helping people overcome an almost always fatal disease.
What she and hundreds of other do benefits us all as a nation and as humans.
If this becomes need based - well they are 24 and up and have no assets. Are they going to claw back to me? Up to what age? Then the university gets the glory and any patents/royalties and she would get nothing.
I can take one course each semester and have tuition covered. I have been doing so for the past 2 years (French studies hobby), but I also have to pay income tax on the tuition. Which means overall that I get about 2/3 of the tuition covered.
S is concerned about this, since he is currently getting tuition waivers for his Master’s degree and is now applying for PhD programs. I will pass along @roethlisburger’s suggestions.
Again, only about 60% of PhDs are in STEM.
Is he wanting to go into academia afterwards? There are positions outside of academia where a PhD is good.
Let’s stipulate that they do. But what are their career prospects?
Hmmm, seems like a moral hazard to me. (And this is particularly true at bottom feeder law schools – we the public guarantee hundreds of thousands in debt for such grads that have little chance of ever finding a legal job.)
But back to our terrific profile newly granted PhD…are you ok with the Uni working them to the bone for 6+ years only so they can graduate into a ‘poorly paid’ job? Is that good public policy?
Some PhD students like the subject they study so much that they are willing to subsist while studying it. But if it becomes untenable, then they will stop.
I see on Facebook that someone is organizing a nationwide walkout of grad students impacted by this on Monday, 11/27. I don’t know how many people will do it… maybe with permission (or encouragement) from their PIs it will get some traction. It seems like the PIs have a vested interest in this not passing as well.
Don’t be silly about where the money goes. There is no need for this change in the tax law except to pay for the tax cuts that are being proposed for corporations and wealthy individuals (who also get the most benefit from the corporate cuts). It isn’t relevant to this conversation.
I haven’t heard about the walkout. I’ll have to check in with a few people who would know if we’re doing that here.
I love my work and am willing to forego a lot to pursue it. I would be making several times what I’m making now if I wasn’t in grad school.
But I’m not going to pay to go to school for another several years. It’s just not going to happen.
I think I’ll go over to UWashington for it, just to show support for my kid and the grad students there. 1:00 Eastern time on the quad of every college is what they are targeting.
Most PHD students love what they’re doing so much that they’re willing to survive on a pitiful amount and then struggle through lean years, so that they’re making a HS graduate salary (less than 30K a year) despite their advanced degree for ten years or more after college until they get to a stable position in academia or industry.
If their income is reduced to $1,000 a month (with rent often reaching $800 in many college towns), they will do something else or go work for another country.
(I am really not seeing them borrowing to pay taxes.)
BTW, STEM isn’t the only set of fields worth investing in. (Remember the Cold War). As I said upthread, China is investing in full ride programs not just for STEM students but also for students presenting potential for international business, international relations, and languages. They’re not doing it out of altruistic generosity.
Research done on terrorism, on the ground in Mali, in Northern Cameroon, on homegrown radicalization, in community prevention programs, in knife violence, can come from Anthropology, French Studies, African Studies, Asian Studies, Sociology, History. That’s just one area, but there are lots and lots of other areas that are vital to our daily life that don’t involve STEM fields.
@intparent: I think I’ll do the same.