<p>It sounds callous - and Ford got nailed for doing the same kind of cost/benefit analysis with car design, which turned out hideously wrong when they were exposed as concluding that a $10 part upgrade wasn’t warranted to save only a few lives with (IIRC) Pintos, which dramatically raised the cost of not doing the upgrade - but in fact, those kinds of cruel, inhuman, but necessary calculations have to be made. Remember “Sophies Choice?” Having to make the decision is more than an individual can bear, but the decision has to be made. That’s why the calculations are done ahead of time.</p>
<p>BTM- ever hear of “Lives in the Balance” -
I’ve been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that you’ve seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war</p>
<p>And there’s a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs</p>
<p>On the radio talk shows and the T.V.
You hear one thing again and again
How the U.S.A. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can’t take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire</p>
<p>There’s a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we can’t even say the names</p>
<p>They sell us the President the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they’re never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire</p>
<p>Not bad, chessmom, but I think I will stick with my Kipling.</p>
<p>For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’
“Chuck 'im out, the brute!”
But it’s “Savior of 'is country” when the guns
begin to shoot.</p>
<p>BTM- scary to think that Lives in the Balance is about Viet Nam…but so applicable today. 4,000 …Americans Dead
XXXXX …Americans Injured
XXXXXX…Iraqis Dead
XXXXXXX…Iraqis Injured</p>
<p>FYI- Jackson Browne song-----listen on You Tube, very powerful!</p>
<p>I would only rely on Jackson Browne to defend me if I was being attacked by Darryl Hannah.</p>
<p>^^^ did you listen btm ??</p>
<p>
Anyone selling tickets?</p>
<p><em>edit</em> This event might be better than the Obama-Hillary Disco dance-off <a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KL8jwDxyY[/url]”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KL8jwDxyY</a></p>
<p>ok, if you don’t like jackson browne—eddie vedder ??</p>
<p>“Masters Of War”</p>
<p>Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.</p>
<p>You that never done nothin’
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it’s your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.</p>
<p>Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8GHBk_HSXg[/url]”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8GHBk_HSXg</a></p>
<p>Of course I listened, chessmom! Look, JB has the dreamiest eyes and the best hair, but a historian he is not. “Ohio” was a much better rock protest song.</p>
<p>Never heard of “Eddie Vedder” before. Watched the vid. He struck me as one of those whiners that Kluge is always talking about. Nothing that couldn’t be cured with a decent haircut and 9 weeks of Basic followed by 3 weeks of Jump.</p>
<p>^^^ Eddie Vedder has much shorter hair now FYI 
</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - Jackson Browne Lives In the Balance](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw]YouTube”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw)
here btm- different images to see …</p>
<p>Wow! That wins the award for “Most tedious music video.” A musical version of a Michael Moore documentary. Jackson should stick to beating up cute blondes.</p>
<p>Bob Dylan sang that song better. I have it in my car CD changer but rarely play it because it is too painful to realize that the song is so apt today- these ‘masters of war’ who never held a gun in battle are sending our young to kill and die for absolutely no purpose except to enrich the bomb-builders, and to strengthen the terrorists. “Even Jesus would never forgive what they do”.</p>
<p>“these ‘masters of war’ who never held a gun in battle are sending our young to kill and die for absolutely no purpose except to enrich the bomb-builders, and to strengthen the terrorists.”</p>
<p>Oh, and also to protect millions of people from being killed and to keep the region from falling into total chaos. But, of course some people never can see the real reason why we are there and prefer to listen to sage words of a zoned-out musician who is oh so well trained in foreign policy and strategic thinking.</p>
<p>
I am confused. Didn’t you just say elsewhere that calling someone an attractive blonde had inapproriate sexual innuendos?</p>
<p>FF: Yeah, our war there has in fact endangered the lives of millions of people and we do run the risk of letting the region fall into chaos if we withdraw precipitously. But that doesn’t in any way justify the original act of going to war. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, it is the Bush faithful who have been zoned out cheerleaders of this war for many years.</p>
<p>jym - I believe the [actual</a> quote was](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060023740-post9.html]actual”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060023740-post9.html):
</p>
<p>and I believe it was in reference to a previous discussion involving words like “taut” and “rockin.” I could be wrong, of course.</p>
<p>
Nope (slang American-English expression). I said that obsessing on attractive blondes, whether beating them or ogling your daughter’s attractive blonde friends, has inappropriate sexual innuendos. Capiche?</p>
<p>See zoosermom’s post #36 (I think its 36,maybe 39?) in the “death penalty creep” thread for a well reasoned response to this nonsense. It seems that it is not Kluge who is obsessing. I imagine he’s still asleep on the west coast. I hope he wakes up soon and addresses this silliness himself. I am more than tired of being caught in the crossfire.</p>
<p>Edit** Zoosermom’s post is post # 36 over in the other thread. It is eloquent. Recommended reading. </p>
<p>OK- its more thant time to get back on topic.</p>
<p>vicariousparent; and it doesn’t matter to you that Bush couldn’t do any of this without congress either condoning it; approving funding for it; or giving authority for him to do it; even though they the congress maintains ultimate responsibility; just so they can convince the American public that it’s all Bush’s fault and they can use it for political gain.</p>
<p>Sorry, but the President doesn’t have this autonomous power that you want to give him. And this is not a Republican vs Democrat issue. I believe that the Republican congress during Clinton’s regime is just as responsible for many of the things that happened in the 90’s. </p>
<p>The ultimate thing is that the “BUCK” stops in congress. The approve or disapprove Supreme Court Justices; they approve or disapprove funding for any military actions happening; the approve/disapprove/or chicken out by delegating authority to the president for certain military actions (Which they can revoke); the list goes on. The congress is the legislative branch of government. They make the laws; they can revoke a law that may have been interpreted by the supreme court differently than they had intended; they give authority to the president. I’m not saying that Bush or any president is immune totally for responsibility, but you can’t sit by and put all the blame in the executive branch.</p>