I would agree with both @gointhruaphase and @tonymom that no matter whether the kid is a 4 or 5 star picking between Alabama, Ohio State and Notre Dame or a kid hoping to play D3 somewhere that the primary responsibility for finding the right landing spot falls on the kid and his or her parents.
To the point about getting kids recruited, @gointhruaphase is correct that no matter how high profile a program, participation in that program does not guarantee the kid will continue to the next level. I was amazed during my son’s freshman year that a ton of the football parents were convinced that their kid was going to play in college simply because he was on the team at that school. I had one dad tell me that he was ok with his son not starting on the freshman “A” team because “at x school, even the back ups get scholarships”. There is a lot of misinformation out there. My guess is that one of the reasons for the AD meetings referenced above is to disabuse people of that idea.
A high profile program does provide a kid several advantages. The opportunity to work against good competition every day, to have good coaching and facilities, and to have a sophisticated off season program. To learn the “grind”. And not insignificantly, to be at a place where a whole lot of college coaches are watching and regularly in and around the school. But the kid still has to have the talent and the will to put in the work.
Going back to @tonymom’s original question, I don’t think the question is really about an investment of money by a high school. I was trying to give an example of the way things work in a high school that tends to produce a large number of recruits year after year in certain sports. I think it would be almost impossible to do what my son’s old school did at a place that didn’t regularly have multiple recruits not because of the cost but because the administration and coaching staff just wouldn’t have the knowledge base. A school that has one or two kids at the table at signing day every year is just not going to be able to do what a school who has twenty or thirty sitting there can.
@varska, thanks for the kind words. I did see a number of my son’s former teachers last weekend at the school play (daughter is a drama kid) & it was nice that many stopped by to ask how he is doing. Several were amused that he is annoyed he now has to study.
I agree with this…whether the kids are so smart that they joke about being annoyed at having to study, or are just plodding Joes or JoAnnes.
To summarize my position on this, I think it is fine for private schools to do whatever the administrators and tuition payers wish. Based on a few public school districts I am familiar with (admittedly a very small sample) I think there are priorities that outrank specialized athletic recruiting services. But even in these cases, let the stake-holders (taxpayers) decide.
Again, in my limited experience, I have never seen students or families look to, or expect, an AD or other central administrator to provide help in recruiting. I have never heard families say "Let’s go to X Private School or Y Public School because they have a great AD or other administrator who can help with my (lax, soccer, baseball, basketball, tennis, football, track…whatever) recruiting.
I do hear parents say–all the time–let’s go to X School because they have a great coach and program in the sport we are interested in. In these cases, where the coach is the recruiting resource, there is no added expense for any recruiting benefit the coach provides beyond the standard salary…so issues relating to taxpayers and tuition payers are moot in such cases.
For anyone out there who has chosen a high school for athletics and the recruiting advantages that might accrue, curious whether you did it because of the AD/administrators, or the coach and program in the sport you were interested in
@fenwaypark. I think that people choosing a high school because of an athletic program choose the school because of the program. From what I have seen it is a question of how many state titles, how many recruits to “big time” schools, how many “big time” games/tournaments, how visible is the program in general?
And define “help” in recruiting. I doubt that anyone picks a school because an assistant AD has a meeting that tells sophomore parents things like when colleges are allowed to start sending recruiting materials, what the rules are for attending recruiting camps, etc. But information like that is in many ways helpful, as the posts we see on this board from time to time asking these very questions can attest.
I think we are talking about two different things. I took the initial question of help in the broad sense, meaning what can a high school do to provide a family guidance through the recruiting process. It appears that you are taking the question in the narrow sense of helping a particular kid get a scholarship/assistance at a particular level or school.
On a personal note, I understand that it is important to you to be derisive towards me. What ever gets you through the day. But you are crossing the line from tiresome to annoying when you are directing your snark towards my kid.
Agree that parents need to work with S or D, to a reasonable degree, in the recruiting process.That stated, there are a huge number of variables in the college recruiting process from sport to sport, from HS to HS, from coach to coach, from student to student, from college to college, from D1 to D3 and so on.
My S was fortunate to have a connected coach, who understood the recruiting process very. He provided a written hand-out to football prospects that stated in bold, all caps etc., the following golden rule: YOU’LL GET YOURSELF RECRUITED!!!"
In the end, it is our S or D’s life. It is up to him/her to take responsibility for getting recruited.
This is completely off base and out of bounds. My last post was not addressed to you. I have never been derisive toward you or your son, unless you think it is derisive for me to say right now that I think you are being unnecessarily defensive.
If I am wrong, post up what you think is derisive, and if you are right I will apologize right here.
Based on what you have said on CC, I think your kid is great. He sounds like a super athlete and an extraordinary student. He is special by all accounts. You are certainly justified in being proud of him.
Back to the topic, in referring to the post by gointhruaphase, the question posed was
WHOA!!!
Can we get back on track gentlemen?..
As an observation I would say there is a correlation between a strong and well informed AD and its staff being well informed. I would go as far as to say the AD is even in the position of professionally mentoring their coaches, guiding them and developing them.
If student athletes must wholy rely on the wisdom of their coach for guidance many may be left without critical info. If your AD has their act together then there is a strong trickle down to coaching staff…which then would allow for the kind of relationship some have mentioned.
On a different note…other than Varska’s very useful book, are there any other resources I could suggest for my son’s school?
The NCAA publishes handbooks for schools and recruits, I think yearly, which will be a help with the ABC’s if your school doesn’t already get them. Other than that, Chris Lincoln wrote a great book in the early 2000s called Playing the Game specifically about Ivy football recruiting. That is kind of dated at this point but gives a general overview of that very narrow segment. For Ivy recruiting in general, @varska is the man.
Speaking personally, the information that really helped us was talking with parents of kids who had graduated a few years before and were then playing in college about the camp circuit, coaches at different schools, etc, and the information from the coaches that based on their experience our kid was a mid-low tier D1/Ivy kind of kid. This resonated with us because at the time there were five or six kids from his high school playing in the Ivy League. Unless you are at a school that has that kind of alumni base, I don’t know how to replicate that experience.
In other words, I think that a lot of this is stuff that has to be learned as the schools go through the process time and time again. Would it be helpful if a high school gave each kid a copy of the handbook for prospective student athletes? Yep. Would probably be even more helpful to give the kid a table showing how few kids who play a particular high school sport will go on to compete in college and at what level (which the NCAA also publishes yearly). But unless you have some people who have a bank of experience with student athletes getting recruited to different schools over time, I don’t know what else can be done.
I am wondering, again, if there is a distinction between public and private schools. In my community, kids who are navigating the district’s public school rules to be able to pick a particular school for athletics are definitely doing it because of the coaches, not the ADs. There is only one private school in town, and I am familiar with a few sports programs at a few others, and I think I see the same thing there. But I am not as well-informed about that.
Of course, if the AD is also a coach, that changes things.
As far as resources, the web is full of them. Google any subject or terminology you are curious about and there are loads of hits. Most sports have websites that cover recruiting. Not sure about the rules here for referring to such sites but anyway, for baseball there is a message board, High School Baseball Web (HSBBW) and Tennisrecruitingnet is the bible for tennis recruiting. Start with Google, would be my suggestion
Thanks all!
I will pass on these resources.
Bottom line is to make info available to interested parents and athletes irregardless if they are top tier or middling athletes; everyone should have the access to help them maximize their opportunities. Let’s help athletes make the best informed decisions. Athletics CAN provide such a wonderful opportunity to help students compete at the highest level AND maximize their academic potential. All schools SHOULD have that in their sights.
fenwaypark: There are, of course, a number of distinctions between private and public schools. There are also distinctions among private schools and distinctions among public schools. For example, in Florida, a public HS may have less than 1000 students and play football at the 2A or 3A level. In contrast, a private HS may have 3,000 students, play at the 5A level and be a perennial national power house. In Florida, there are top academic, public high schools with satellite programs as well as top academic private schools. I suspect that it differs greatly among states as well as urban vs. rural environments.
In reading these boards, most posters seem to be focused on using athletics as a hook to gain admission to top academic institutions (Ivy, Patriot, NESCAC etc.). With rare exceptions, most of these type of colleges require applicants to be strong performers in terms of grades/test scores as well as on the field. Although the admissions standards may be relaxed for certain athletes, they are still remain high to very high. I suspect that may be the reason that private high schools seem to be over-represented on these boards.
I have no opinion about the level of “representation” of private high schools on this forum, and whatever the level of representation is, I have no issue with it.
And I have no opinion about whether high collegiate admissions standards for athletes correlates to attendance at private versus public high schools…
The point I tried to make was:
The question I posed was:
I would be happy to respond to any questions, or receive responses on these.
@zenator
I don’t think there was any reference to or claiming that private schools excel at fostering student athletes in terms of recruiting. Rather posters are simply speaking to their own experiences.
And…I think most are aware that the Ivys and similar institutions expect high academics in addition to competitive athletics to be recruitable. If folks aren’t then that goes to my original point that schools should educate their athletes about the process so student athletes understand “where” they fit and how to be able to negotiate the larger process. Both public and private schools can do that but many don’t. The extent to which they do this depends on a variety of things which fenwaypark and ohiodad have mentioned.
Surprise, surprise…my son’s HS has now added an info night for student athletes and parents to discuss Q&A for athletic recruiting and NCAA. Better late than never.
Update: I met with the President of my son’s school and specifically addressed this topic. He now plans to add an info night for parents and athletes to address recruiting issues. Small but significant steps…
Good for you @tonymom. Like I said up the thread, I don’t believe that resources like you discussed require a huge commitment of time or money from the school. Just a mechanism to capture the experience of those who have gone through the process.
Our school was really useless. We did everything ourselves. I got my info from these boards, another parent whose son was recruited by the big H, and (sob) experience.This was for swimming. Of course, it’s much easier than a team sport because you just show your times, and they know what they are getting.
My DD plays a team sport, and all the recruiting forms want contact info from the HS team. It’s a different animal and much more time consuming from my standpoint, as well as stressful- Coaches want to see the athlete play, and while stats are useful, there are so many more variables that its hard to compare the individuals.
I think a recruiting night with a few speakers would be awesome.
So interesting update…
One of the current moms on my son’s previous HS team notes the coach added a “collegiate rowing and recruiting night” to the team practice calendar. Not sure if it’s a result of my bringing this issue to the admin but either way I hope families get the info needed to make sound choices about their student athlete’s college choices.
And good luck to all of the families currently in the thick of it recruiting wise. There is a light at the end of the tunnel
