<p>My statement about American exceptionalism wasn’t meant to suggest that Polanski shouldn’t be brought back to face trial. If he committed a crime and the case was never closed, then extraditing him back to the US to complete the trial is standard procedure, not exceptional.</p>
<p>My intent was to point out that we are quick to criticize the French government for not handing him over themselves, without thinking about the many ways that American citizens break the law in other countries, for which we would never consider handing them back over to that country’s government in order to face trial. If I went to Iran, engaged in homosexual behavior, then fled back to the US, and then the Iranian government demanded that the US government send me back there to face trial, we wouldn’t consider it for a moment. (Would we?) I believe this is exactly analogous to the Polanski situation.</p>
<p>So, let’s bring him back, make him face trial for his actions, and punish him as the law prescribes. But let’s not get hung up on our inability to believe that there are people in the world who don’t think he’s such a bad guy. Such cultural differences are not that unusual. (Killing people who draw cartoons of Mohammed, anyone?)</p>
<p>pizzagirl - Never alone. I have two children, 1.5 years apart, and if my brother-in-law would have wanted to take my daughter alone to the zoo, the answer would have been “no.” When my children reached 4 years old, I also did not allow them to sit on people’s lap other than my sister, their grand-mothers, my husband and I. Like it or not. I wish I could see your face on that one :)</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, there was a little girl in our neighborhood who always asked my daughter for sleepovers when her mother was out of town. I have always got out of it by having her at our house instead, claiming bad timing to the father. And if the father had questionned my decision, I would have had told him point blank that, as far as I was concerned, the request was innapropriate. You can call it paranoid, if you want, and maybe it is in a way, but I like to call it being aware and responsible. I have to tell you that my “paranoid attitude” made an impact on some mothers around me, because when I chose a specific summer camp for my children, they send their own, knowing the extensive researches I must have done on it.</p>
<p>I saw Tess-all three + hours of it.- ( but Days of Heaven is my favorite for painterly shots) with my boyfriend- it was kind of funny in retrospect because * I could * barely sit through it & I liked the book. my boyfriend ( now H) really had no idea what he was in for, he was a good sport though.</p>
<p>Sometimes parents make mistakes that have tragic consequences for their child. Sometimes tragic things happen to children that nothing could have prevented, but sometimes there are steps the parent could have taken that might have prevented the tragedy – whether it’s ensuring a child was buckled up, making sure that matches and lighters are not in the reach of the child, etc. Did anyone read The Glass Castle? That’s a harrowing account, if ever there was one, of kids who survived the most questionable of parenting. </p>
<p>I think the victim’s mom made some good choices – she chose to call the police immediately when she realized what had happened and she protected her daughter from having to testify at the trial. But she made a very poor choice in letting her daughter be alone with Polanski. And the fact is, if her daughter had not been alone with Polanski, she would not have been raped. He may have found another victim, but it would not have been this victim. </p>
<p>Very often, the hardest thing for victims of sexual abuse to come to terms with, is the feeling or belief that a parent did not protect them. Cases where the survivor believes a parent was complicit (i.e. knew abuse was happening and did nothing to stop it) are the worst. Cases where the survivor believes that the parent should have known something might happen or could have taken actions that would have prevented it are also difficult. It’s sometimes easier to understand that there are evil people in the world than to believe that the actions of the person who was supposed to protect you may have led to something bad happening.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl—Polanski is still 100% guilty of what he did, that is rape and sodomize a 13 year old girl. And the mother is guilty of what she did—serve her daughter up to the altar of fame. The discussion of what the mother did in respect to her daughter may disgust you, but it in now way detracts from the culpability of Polanski. I am shocked that people would think that it is perfectly ok to leave a 13year old girl in this situation. Perhaps living and working in Hollywood for years has made me more aware or suspicious of sleazy artists and parents who are so enamoured with the idea of their children becoming famous that they will risk everything.
Again----they are two seperate issues and BOTH parties are guilty of their own actions.</p>
<p>Eucalyptus: As the mother of sons and being married to a wonderful man, having great brothers and other male relatives, your attitude saddens me. Believe it or not, not many men are the kind that you shouldn’t leave your daughters with. Now what would you do if you had a gay female relative? Are you careful about not leaving them alone with women also?</p>
<p>Eucalyptus, my mother died when I was 15. If my friends’ parents had banned their daughters from our home because my Dad was a single parent, it would have been devastating to me, and it would have made me very uncomfortable in their homes. It would have taken me no time at all to figure out what their parents were suspicious of and I don’t think I would have wanted anything to do with people who would pre-judge him that way or not take the time to get to know him. I needed my friends and I needed life to be as normal as possible – a belated thank you to their parents for understanding that.</p>
<p>Again… the mother left her daughter alone for a “photo shoot” with a notorious director at a private home notorious for drugs, sex parties…you name it. It was not a piano lesson at a beloved uncles house.
Making the two situations comparable is silly. Its like the difference between letting you kid ride their bike on your cul de sac as opposed to allowing her to ride her bike on the freeway.</p>
<p>I certainly did not mean to sound harsh. I have a very small family: 1 sister, 1 brother-in-law and 2 nephew/nieces. So when they wanted my daughter, it was usually to be with their children. </p>
<p>Mimk6 - I have never had the opportunity to met a single father who was raising his family, and I know I would not have deprived my D from a friendship based on that fact alone. </p>
<p>With regards to the sleepover mentionned earlier, there was more to it than just the mother not being there. And when I was adding everything up, the situation sounded strange to me. First of, my D and the little girl were not going to the same school, and rarely played together although we lived in the same neighborhood. Yet, she was asked for sleepovers. In my mind, it was not a normal progression of how thing should happen. At that age, they usually play together, they have so much fun that they beg parents for a sleepover. However, in that case, the mother was the one phoning me for a sleepover and always said: “We would like to have your D for a sleepover”, but she failed to mentionned that “we” excluded her. The time was also an issue with me. She was expected there at around 8pm. So, she was really invited to sleep. I guess the situation did not make sense to me, and I did not want to take a chance. Am I perfect? No way. Often, I am certain, I overreacted, but it was my decision. I believe everyone embarke motherhood with their own luggages full of past experiences, fears and values.</p>
<p>After reading other posts and thinking about it, I change my mind about the mother in this specific instance. She did trust Polansky, and really tought he was a friend. I feel sorry for her.</p>
<p>(OT, to emeraldkity): Yes! to Days of Heaven! One of my favorite movies ever, precisely for the painterly quality. (Did you know Malick taught philosophy at MIT before he got into screenwriting and directing? He was also a Rhodes Scholar and a Harvard summa.)</p>
<p>I don’t believe it’s analogous, because in your hypothetical scenario, consenting homosexual behavior isn’t illegal in the US though it is in Iran. But in the Polanski situation, I’m pretty darn sure that drugging and raping a 13 yo is illegal both places.</p>
<p>That’s sad. Seriously, your kid couldn’t sit on grandpa’s lap (when there was no reason to suspect grandpa of being anything other than a loving grandpa)? I was an only grandchild for a long time and my grandfather took me everywhere. Absolutely everywhere. Just the two of us. Car trips, to the ballpark, for ice cream, whatever. I treasure those memories highly and I can’t imagine my life without them, or having my mother have to “ensure a woman was nearby.” </p>
<p>I have a 5 yo niece. I simply cannot imagine in family gatherings having my sister “not allow” my H or my father to be alone in a room with her or to not allow her to sit on their laps. Sorry, I think that’s paranoid.</p>
<p>Because they are two separate issues, both open to discussion. I would expect that that a sleaze ball depraved jerk like Polanski to do the awful things he did. And sadly enough I expect some star struck idiot stage moms in Hollywood to do the awful things they do. Both are products of the film industry and both are horrible. They are two separate issues. I imagine I should have started a separate thread called
“horrible stage moms”.</p>
<p>I am cynical and certainly lack the generosity of spirit to feel sorry for anyone involved in this nightmare except for the girl. By the end of all this we are going to find out that there is a huge cast of characters and plenty of guilt to throw around. I think I will go back to discussing pie.</p>
<p>I think you are putting words in my mouth. I have never said that I did not allow them alone in a room with their grandfathers, nor did I said no hugs. And if he wanted to bring his granddaughter for an ice cream, what’s wrong with bringing his grandson along, or the other grandchild for that matter?<br>
You have to realize most people who thinks like me (and believe me, I met plenty), may not have had the kind of family life as painted in “Leave it to Beaver.” Most important to me, though, is that when I look back, I have no regrets. My children, one in college now, have very good relationships with all members of our family. I do know there are families out there that are more affectionnate, and I respect that. Everyone is different, that’s the beauty of this world.</p>
<p>musicamusica: I think that since we live in the same city are, have been, or have relatives in the business we understand, from the ground, what happened here. To the unititated: There are people in the town who will do anything to touch fame, selling (I don’t mean literally necessarily) themselves and their families for the golden ticket. </p>
<p>It is posoble that one has to understand that there is one victim here: the then 13 year old. And then…Hollywood style where you pitch in two sentences: Mom, while trying to boost her sagging career, sets up daughter with lecherous executive with felonious results. Tragedy ensues.</p>
<p>Ellebud----Just out of grad school I worked in an office at a major studio.(End of the '70s and early 80’s) Right next to my office was a casting director. I have stories of stage moms, actors, directors et al that would have your hair stand on end. I’m sure you have the same.</p>
<p>I never let me D go anywhere alone at that age. I didnt always go with her, but she always had to have a friend with her, a friend I knew, whose cell phone number I knew, and who had my contact info.</p>