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<p>That’s rather presumptuous of you, don’t you think?</p>
<p>His race never bothered him. It was the poverty and the abusive parents that bothered him. Please don’t presume to know what affected someone you’ve never met. That is another blanket statement. You assume all Hispanics, like blacks, have encountered racism. It’s simply not true.</p>
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<p>Oh wow! In the midst of our heated discussion, this sure came as a surprise! I feel honored and humbled. Thank you very much for your kind comment!</p>
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<p>True. But I’ve observed that, with each subsequent generation, the youth seem to care less about preserving their family’s culture and more about integrating. (see the thread on circumcision as an example)</p>
<p>For example, my hubby learned English from the tv. His parents spoke only Spanish. But he didn’t find it important to teach our son Spanish, aside from a bit of conversational.</p>
<p>Going back a generation, my dad (German) got disowned because he had the audacity to marry an Irish woman (or maybe it was she was part Cherokee? My mom was so ashamed of being part Cherokee I didn’t even find out until after her death. She always told me it was because she was Irish.)</p>
<p>But now, who ever bothers to ask a white person what they are made of? English, Irish, German, Swiss…it doesn’t matter as long as they look white, right? The subcultures of ‘white’ have all been integrated.</p>
<p>When I was a kid, just 30-40 years ago, it was a really big deal for a white person to marry a black or Hispanic. Now, it happens all the time! In San Antonio, it’s 60% Hispanic and there are LOTS of mixed families. There are plenty of blacks mixed in, too.</p>
<p>At this rate, a couple more generations, and a white/black or black/Asian or any other combination will be like Irish/German was a couple of generations ago. It’s inevitable. It’s the path we’re on, as a whole. There will always be those who don’t want to mix, but it’s becoming increasingly common for race to NOT be an issue!</p>
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<p>I am not saying I sufferred more than anyone. But it is important to me that I not be naive about what I have experienced so that when a guy like Ron Paul comes along looking and quacking like a duck, I lie to myself and claim he is a lovely lady or some other comprehensive Tom Foolery.</p>
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<p>I understand that it all appears presumptuous, and you know, for a time there I thought my own kids were going to escape racism. I am now convinced that if a person lives in America and is not stillborn and is not locked away in a trunk somewhere, and if they are visibly nonwhite Hispanic or black, they have encountered racism. If they meet the aforementioned qualifications and live in the geographic South, then they will encounter old South barbarism every single day. If they claim otherwise, they are self-deceived or outright lying. America is racist in ways that are inescapable. What to do with this racist climate is the nut we have to crack.</p>
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<p>Well don’t be surprised, and you’re welcome. I have no issue with you as a person - not at all. I just think your ideas are nonsense. Personally, I like to engage the difference. I learn stuff in this way.</p>
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<p>hmmmm…I’ll have to ponder that one. Could it be because the north had a head start, by being less agriculturally-based? By that logic, one could argue that Britain has better counterparts…the music was sure ahead…look how England produced The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin…and then the US followed suit.</p>
<p>Ah, but then, if you dig a bit deeper, guess who influenced the greatest rock guitarists? R&B, mostly BLACK American musicians! That’s right! Ask the greatest guitarist of all time, Jimmy Page, and he will tell you about his blues influences. Pink Floyd got their name from some R&B musicians, black I believe.</p>
<p>Eh, why compare? Why not just see the good everywhere you look? The southern geographical area has some beautiful plants. And I don’t think there is any counterpart for the progressive city of Austin…</p>
<p>Come to think of it, what you refer to as ‘The South’ (subsequently corrected to say ‘The OLD South’ thank you) is probably what is referred to by southern locals as ‘redneck’ and that (admittedly derogatory, but actually quite descriptive) term is used to describe closed-minded and bigoted. As least as it’s used by those who don’t identify with the term. (Please, no offense intended to any ranchers on cc! I have some rancher friends who are decidedly NOT redneck!)</p>
<p>Well, it’s been fun…I hope we made some progress towards understanding…always a good thing. Thanks for the stimulating discussion.</p>
<p>nite nite</p>
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<p>Sure, but what matters is how they responded to it. They don’t necessarily have had to let it bother them.</p>
<p>Actually, what we HAVE encountered more than racial bigotry is RELIGIOUS bigotry. Just read some of my other threads and you will see that I am to religious bigotry as you are to racial bigotry. It’s a major pet peeve of mine, as I have experienced its horror firsthand. I admit I have a LOT of unresolved bitterness towards religious bigotry. (but I’m working on healing it.) Yup. That is a LOT bigger deal. And all 3 of us in my family have experienced it in all its ugliness.</p>
<p>In my area, religious intolerance seems to be much more prevalent than racial intolerance.</p>
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<p>Thanks for your honesty! It really doesn’t bother me! (although being misunderstood does bother me, which is why I go to great lengths to attempt clear communication, as I can see you do too.)</p>
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<p>I respect that! Many people are not open-minded enough to be able to learn from those with whom they disagree.</p>
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<p>Only if you overlook the big picture to focus on the small timespan represented by the present. Should we review the entire history of Southern gang violence against blacks, from 1619 to today, we would encounter a torrential flood of violence that veritably dwarfs all violence ever caused by blacks anywhere in America.</p>
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<p>I agreed with Cosby too. I just think he was too harsh and did not even begin to offer a potential solution to the problem.</p>
<p>Lealdragon:</p>
<p>Goodnite. Its always a great pleasure to engage you.</p>
<p>Thanks! I appreciate it and the same to you!</p>
<p>PS. I’ve encountered quite a few blacks in other circumstances besides selling. There is a black man in my office (also an insurance agent). We’ve exchanged hugs. A black man came by today to pick up some items I was giving away on craigslist. I’ve made some black friends in my activism activities. There are a lot of blacks (probably more than half) in my neighborhood…which used to be a predominately white neighborhood, btw…many of these I’ve extended my hand to, and many of these have extended their hands to me. I really do think attitude and expectation have a lot to with it.</p>
<p>Another analogy: When my son was a baby, I NEVER encountered any comments about my breastfeeding him in public, despite the fact that I did it til he was about 2 years old (and then made a rule not in public til he was weaned). Even with extended breastfeeding, which is not common, no one EVER said a word to me about it. Yet I had several friends who complained that they had strangers make rude remarks about it quite frequently. </p>
<p>I speculate that this was more than mere chance. Those friends were all self-conscious, and I was not. I think people pick up on the vibe.</p>
<p>Likewise, if a black (Hispanic, whatever) expects to be treated with dignity and respect, he’ll be more likely to get it. Same with anyone, actually. It’s been documented that women who walk with confidence do not get attacked as do women who avert their eyes and look downcast and fearful.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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<p>I guess I don’t see the value in focusing on that since there’s nothing we can do about it now. All those people are dead, and I vehemently reject the idea that their ancestors are somehow culpable for their actions.</p>
<p>If you don’t seek revenge, and your mission truly is to eradicate unruly, dangerous, and racially motivated homicidal behavior, I think you’ll find that reforming South Central Los Angeles would be a better idea than reforming East Texas.</p>
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<p>I think that’s the bottom line. Drossel, if you really didn’t mean to imply that WE who live in the south (or my redneck brother who listens to country music but is a really nice guy, though a little hardheaded) are not actually responsible for something our ancestors did, please clarify.</p>
<p>I agree with Vyse that the emphasis should be placed on eradicating violence and injustices towards ANYONE, regardless of race or reason, wherever it is found, rather than limiting it to a particular culture. In all fairness, Drossel did clarify that it was the prejudiced BEHAVIOR and not an actual entire geographical region that was referred to as ‘The South.’ But other offensive behaviors, such as black violence or Hispanic violence or any sort of prejudice/violence, may be found in any city, any culture. So may I suggest that to truly focus on the bad behavior, it is best to avoid associating it with a culture (which is very broad and includes other non-related aspects such as music, etc), since that sounds very misleading. </p>
<p>Ultimately, I think that focusing on PROGRESS and encouraging true liberty and freedom among ALL people and encouraging our young people as they pursue friendships and relationships and even marriages to/with those of other races and cultures, is what will bring about true changes. As Ron Paul said, racism is a sickness of the human heart and cannot totally be legislated away. Whether legislation has helped eradicate racism, or whether it would have happened as a natural course, is debatable. But what is not debatable is that we cannot wait on legislation to heal the human condition. We must each work individually, in our daily dealings with people. Atrocities are committed against other people in every socioeconomic, every cultural segment of society. (For example, demoralization and abuse towards a white woman by her rich, white, abusive husband.) There may be higher concentrations of violence in certain areas, but atrocities must be dealt with wherever they are found.</p>
<p>Special legislation for minorities was probably necessary AT THE TIME. Think of it as training wheels. Perhaps now we are ready to ride that bike without training wheels. Perhaps we as a society have evolved to the point that we can NOW focus on individual freedom, and move beyond racial separation and any sort of group identity. THAT is the goal of Ron Paul, and I think it is a worthy one.</p>
<p>If you haven’t read “Born Fighting” by Jim Webb, you might want to. It’s enormously enlightening about the post-war south. At least to me as a northener.</p>
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Of course simply because someone from the Old South can’t see a thing does not mean it does not exist. I posit that we leave seeing what needs to be done to learned men, leaving people with Old Southern thinking to do what they do best-- which is sit in their blindness, seeing no value in focusing on the effects of the past, and repeating the same pig ignorant behaviors that even today hinder progress.</p>
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<p>Well, it is certainly not my contention or anyone else’s that I know or have read, that modern day people are culpable for what others did in the past. I only claim the obvious, which is something I find I must do incessantly when speaking with one who is infected with the Old South, to wit, that issues exist as they do today because of the viciousness of the past. The godless culture of the Old South destroyed people with impunity, actual human beings, because it, by nature, is dishonorable at its very core. It gave birth to children many of whom are today infected by the Old South, which is to say they do not care for honor and decency because such things do not truly exist in Old Southern culture but are only talked about.</p>
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<p>It is a truly narrow mind indeed that cannot put together what is so very obvious to even the least intelligent person of Northern thought. South Central LA is the revenge. America’s increasing crime rate is the revenge. The reason children do not play as they once did is because of revenge, which now affects such things as childhood obesity and other issues. Vast numbers of America’s problems are now taking place because of revenge. It is not a cognitive effort on the part of the oppressed. It is a natural result of being infected with the Old South culture of the past and of the present. One cannot clean up South Central LA without the death of Old South culture. I suspect in five generations that death will be so complete few will care to remark about it.</p>
<p>Lealdragon:</p>
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<p>Once again, it is obvious to me you are not an Old Southerner, since your culture is obviously superior to Old Southern culture. You do not exhibit the same sort of hick ignorance that is typical of that culture and that even today fuels much of the complete nonsense that causes America to be hated worldwide today. Though I think your ideas are quite wrongheaded, even naive at times, I do see that you at least attempt to apply your mind to new and better developed ways of thought. That is a cultural trait that is not part of Old Southern culture, which is why that culture is not nearly as developed as Northern culture. It is why anyone in America, black or white, who embraces that culture tends to perform beneath everyone else depending upon their relative stress and historical oppression.</p>
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<p>Well of course, since much of black culture is a cultural offshoot of Old Southern culture, we will find the same species of ignorance and backwardness there as we do in anyone of any race who imbibes the culture. That is why the crime exists as it does. It is Old South stupidity fueled by the despair and bitterness that comes down to blacks from the past and that is increased by racism in the current day. Mind, I do think black culture has several astonishing and superior traits not found in the Old South culture that underlies it. But those traits rarely find their true power while covered with the profound hopelessness and fear that the Old South spreads to every honorable person who encounters it. I am convinced that blacks, to move beyond the past, must abandon the weakness and selfishness that is innate to Old Southern culture. If I had one wish for black folks, that would be it. I wish this because I know should we abandon it, the rest of our progress would be a matter of “physics”, so to speak.</p>
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<p>Do you not see that behaviors are in fact culture? How can we focus on behavior and not on culture? </p>
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<p>Once again, I am convinced Ron Paul is a racist himself, and I do not trust him. Indeed, I trust no man who actually admits to being too stupid to check his own newsletter for over ten years as it spews forth all sorts of the worst racist tripe imaginable. Yet I do not think racism can be legislated away. This is not the point of race-based legislation. The point is to regulate public resources in such a way that all are seen as equal under the law. By such fair public treatment, public roads cannot be used for white only businesses that effectively force blacks and other non-whites to pay for white only markets (which used to exist). Public funds cannot be used to fund confederate flags, Swastikas, and other symbols of gross dishonor.</p>
<p>“Indeed, I trust no man who actually admits to being too stupid to check his own newsletter for over ten years as it spews forth all sorts of the worst racist tripe imaginable.”</p>
<p>I watched the video too, and I admit Paul does an admirable job of trying to deny that the contents of those newsletters reflect his own views. But at the end of the day, the facts just don’t pass the sniff test. I just can not believe that Paul was blissfully unaware (for ten years!) of the poison that was being spread in his name. And his claim that libertarians cannot be racist is as patently absurd as the claim that blacks can’t be racist. ANYONE can be racist. It just takes the conviction that some people are inherently inferior/superior by virtue of their race. As a matter of fact, I’ve even known blacks who have been so poisoned by the centuries long racism of “Old Southern” culture as to believe that blackness is inherently inferior.
Belief in Laissez Faire government depends not one wit upon belief in racial equality. In fact, the concept of “States’ Rights” is very Laissez Faire.</p>
<p>Where do you get the ‘10 years’ from? It was a period of 2 years in which the racist stuff appeared. And not in every issue.</p>
<p>^^Of course even two years is outlandish. But it was ten years (or more). [In</a> 1989 Ron Paul](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5216859-post6.html]In”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5216859-post6.html) published quite a lot of Old South philosophy. He had a chance to address it during his previous campaigns, but didn’t. It was only in 2001 that he mentioned them and even then he did not denounce them.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that no one who speaks at a neo-confederate conference on how to secede from the United States is to be trusted.</p>
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<p>Yeah. That, unfortunately, describes a vast number of blacks. It is just that many of us do not wish to admit the sadness that is taking place in our infected Old Southern minds. This is why so many black kids choose white dolls when asked which is better, and why they choose black dolls when asked which is ugliest, and why they choose the black dolls when asked which is like themselves. There is nothing good about the Old South, and blacks would do well to simply, and quietly, abandon it. No need to recoil from it with boisterous claims that black is beautiful. That just worsens the situation by suggesting to our kids that there is even a question about it. We should simply distance ourselves from Old South thinking (and even its wretched speech pattern) and embrace something that is superior. The kids will get the right message without even being told.</p>
<p>I agree that it describes a discouragingly large percentage of the black population, and that it’s something many of us are ashamed to acknowledge, much less address. It is this belief, I think, which forms the underpinning of the “acting white” accusations some blacks level against upwardly mobile blacks. It’s why academic scholarship is seen as “not black” by far too many in the poor, and even middle class AfAm community. It is why, as a child, I honestly believed that God hated black people. And it’s roots stem back to one of the many trees, planted and watered by self-serving slaveholders, a tree still lovingly and periodically watered by the likes of William Shockley, and the writers of “The Bell Jar”. </p>
<p>I always pull a sarcastic grin whenever I hear people say slavery ended “a long time ago”, as if Jim Crow and brutal law sanctioned racism didn’t continue unabated for more than one hundred years post-slavery, as if the signing of the Civil Rights Act made it as though none of it ever happened, nor carries any lasting effects.</p>
<p>Not conclusive, but interesting:</p>
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<p>from [Ron</a> Paul racism text comparison - Ron Paul Forums](<a href=“Ron Paul racism text comparison”>Ron Paul racism text comparison)</p>
<p>see also</p>
<p>[Wirkman</a> Netizen: Insert ideas into head; observe at safe distance.](<a href=“http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=201]Wirkman”>http://wirkman.net/wordpress/?p=201)</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>[TNR</a> Hit Piece: how to respond, step by step - Ron Paul Forums](<a href=“TNR Hit Piece: how to respond, step by step”>TNR Hit Piece: how to respond, step by step)</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>[Ron</a> Paul is Highest-Polling Republican Among Black Voters — Ron Paul 2008](<a href=“ronpaul.com”>ronpaul.com)</p>
<p>I am intrigued by Ron Paul because of friends, and even some family, who are gung-ho about him. What is the attraction? These are people I have never considered racist or homophobic, even some former lefties. What has happened to draw people to this guy? I don’t get it . . .</p>
<p>Of course they’re not racist or homophobes! Neither is Ron Paul!</p>
<p>It’s true that he has a strong attraction to people from the full political spectrum. I have always voted Democrat, and would have loved to support the first woman or black president, had they been the best choice. Yet here I am, about to vote Republican for the first time in my life!</p>
<p>I am pro-life, but liberal on most other issues. Some of the supporters in my local group are Evangelical Christians, ultra-conservative on everything. Others are complete lefties, pro-choice, environmentalist, etc.</p>
<p>Why does he appeal to such diverse people?</p>
<p>Because, though we may disagree on some issues like abortion, we all agree on the 3 key issues that trump all other issues:</p>
<p>Return to the Constitution
Restore the civil liberties that were removed by the patriot act
Restore our dignity and respect among other nations, and prevent unnecessary wars</p>
<p>These are the key issues. If we don’t have our freedoms, that our great country was founded on, it doesn’t matter what race we are or what our stance on abortion is.</p>
<p>If we don’t return to the Constitution, upon which our country was founded, and quit trying to build an empire, our country is doomed to fall, as have all other empires throughout history that overextended themselves both economically and militarily.</p>
<p>If we continue to start wars on a pre-emptive basis, something that we had NEVER done before pre-Iraq, we will be known as the bully, the aggressor, to the rest of the world, as is already happening. If any of the other major candidates gets elected, the warmongering is likely to continue. </p>
<p>Ron Paul supporters might not agree on all the issues, but we put aside any minor disagreements because we recognize how crucial it is to save our country, economically and morally. Starting wars on false pretenses is immoral. Invading other countries who have not attacked us is immoral. Stripping citizens of their rights, listening to their conversations, forcing them to carry a national ID card, searching their homes without a warrant, censoring info that citizens have a right to, big business owning the major media and dictating to the people whom they should consider viable candidates…all of these issues are immoral and some even border on what Ron Paul calls ‘soft fascism.’</p>
<p>Example: The only issue I really disagree with Ron Paul on, and it’s a BIG issue to me, is the environment. So how do I reconcile this? Simple. The environment becomes a moot point if there is a nuclear war, since nuclear war is bad for the planet, humans, and other living things.</p>
<p>Example: My friend who is pro-choice: how does she reconcile this with an unapologetically pro-life candidate? She understands that what she considers her right to have an abortion becomes quite irrelevant if she no longer has the basic rights that were cornerstones of our great country.</p>
<p>Now, when you watch the debates, you will notice something very interesting: Ron Paul stands out from the rest. Why? Either he’s a nutjob (as the other candidates would have you believe) or he is a brilliant statesman, with thinking lightyears beyond the others.</p>
<p>Which is it? Obviously you must decide that for yourself. Obviously there are some intelligent people who are Ron Paul supporters (like your family and friends, perhaps?) so you might ask yourself if they may be right. Then, may I suggest that you take a bit of time and do some research for yourself. Read Ron Paul’s actual words, rather than just believing what the media tells you about him, or judging him based on 3-second soundbites in the debates.</p>
<p>Here is a good place to start:</p>
<p>[Congressman</a> Ron Paul Archives](<a href=“http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html]Congressman”>Ron Paul, MD, Author at LewRockwell)</p>
<p>Also, here are a few compelling facts about Ron Paul:</p>
<p>He walks his talk. He cannot be accused of flip-flopping. His voting record is consistent. If you watch a video of him from 20 years ago, he was saying the same thing he says today. He refuses his Congressional pension, in a demonstration of his integrity. He does not accept donations from special interest groups, whereas all the other candidates do. Which makes his support all the more astonishing, since the huge amount of $$ that’s been raised came from the grassroots effort, in the form of small, individual donations.</p>
<p>The Ron Paul campaign is about the PEOPLE rising up and taking back our country from the neocons. Oh yes, and btw, ALL the other major candidates are members of the CFR. That’s why they all sort of sound…alike, in case you hadn’t noticed. They specialize in platitudes…fluffy soundbites that sound good but say little. Ron Paul is the only one asking the tough questions, digging deep, and providing the tough answers. He is the honest, humble statesman that this country so desperately needs. Ron Paul is the only major candidate who answers only to the Constitution. THAT is why the mainstream media doesn’t like him.</p>
<p>Ron Paul supporters consider this a Revolution, every bit as much as the Revolution that gave our country its independence.</p>
<p>I hope this sheds some light on the Ron Paul phenomenon for you.</p>