Ross Preadmit VS Northwestern Econ/ Kellogg Certificate Programs

[ChaChaanTeng]

Placing 7 or 8 MMSS student into the top 4 consulting firms and BB IBanks as has been the case over the last two years is not impressive. Ross places over 60 each year. Here are the MMSS placements for the last 2 years. 15 of 72 placed in one of the 4 main consulting firms or a major BB IBank, but the majority were placed in pretty standard companies. considering the tiny size of the program, and its extremely competitive nature, those numbers are actually quite subdued.

But when only 7-8 MMSS students each year join the top consulting, IBanking and Tech companies, it is hard to draw any conclusion. Michigan has 70-80 (out of 400 or so) BBA graduates joining those types of firms (Bain, BCG, McKinsey, Citi, Barclays, GS, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, Deutschebank, Google, Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Cisco, Intel etc…). Proportionately, the numbers may be similar, but a specialty program with just 40 students per class cannot be compared to a major program with 400 students per class.

1. Blackstone Group is one of the most prestigious PRIVATE EQUITY firms. Strategy& was formerly Booz & Co. AQR Capital, Analysis Group, and Bates White..etc. are also not "pretty standard". AQR Capital is an asset management company specializing in equity hedge funds and other alternative (a.k.a. high risk high return) investments. It got $120 billions AUM, huge for a firm with only 500 employees. Analysis Group and Bates White are boutique economic consulting/research firms. These three firms particularly value the quantitative background MMSS students bring. Just because you are not well versed in that space and are not familiar with them doesn't mean they are "pretty standard". In fact, these three companies are harder to get in than many of the companies you mentioned in that they usually hire only graduate students, not undergrads.
2. MMSS isn't "extremely competitive". Most applicants got in as long as they got into NU. The only criteria is you have good math scores but then most that got into NU got them anyway.
3. MMSS isn't a business program. Many students were never interested in banks. The only thing that's common among the students is that they are good at math. You can't judge their placement based on how many got placed into the banks if many never applied. The analytical and quantitative nature of the program means the students are more likely to find jobs that utilize the quantitative skills they have. That's why the overrepresentation of consulting and economic/financial research positions and then a couple in private equity and hedge fund management. Like I mentioned, they regularly land positions with firms that typically hire only graduate students (MBAs and PhDs only).
4. Other than BCG, Bains, McKinsey, GS, and Google, all the other firms you mentioned are not necessarily better jobs than others like Accenture. For example, it's not that difficult to land a job with IBM in DC for the Federal consulting. Many entry-level positions in big companies like those aren't really the most competitive. Among the banks, you have no idea how many of those are not related to retail banking, commercial banking instead of investment banking anyway. The numbers I got was 61 to be exact, not 70-80. Also, there's nobody listed for Apple or Cisco.
5. Kellogg certificate programs start in junior year, not senior year.
6. Kellogg certificate students have their own "internship database" on Kellogg's website. The career coach is a full-time employee at the Kellogg school. Kellogg also actively market to employers on the program's behalf; the resume book has over 300 companies looking at it. Obviously, Kellogg certificate students don't apply for the same positions Kellogg MBA students do when the positions ask for MBAs only. I'd also like to point out that many Kellogg certificate students work on research done by Kellogg professors.
7. Regarding the starting MBA salary, I guess you got that $140,000 from US News. Well, either Michigan misreported their number or if not, other schools understated their numbers. Go to their respective employment reports, Kellogg grads reported higher numbers across the board, bonus included or not. The fact that Michigan's reported number matches Berkeley/Columbia that are ranked higher and located in higher cost areas should give you an immediate clue that Michigan's reported number is likely inaccurate.
8. As for getting the equivalent, double-majoring in math is an overkill if the motive behind is trying to get the practical quant skill. One would have to deal with bunch of materials with no practical use. MMSS was created exactly because of the disconnect between math and social sciences/econ when they are taught separately by separate departments.