SAT cheating scandal in LI: "new lease on life"

Parents Forum
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<p>Is the difference that they have not been caught yet? Should we assume that this young academic “entrepreneur” came up with the “business idea” on his own a couple of years ago? Should we assume that it is a mere accident that this surfaced in this type of community, or could it be that the marriage of motive and means is simply too hard to resist. </p>

<p>Fwiw, this is just a small but iconic view of the much larger problem of a deeply ingrained culture. It is all about winning at all costs. It is all about using money, influence, and contacts to get a result that could not obtained by merit or hard work. It’s all about adults setting aside their integrity by supporting the organized cheating or merely looking the other way. It’s all about placing undue expectations onto the young and naive who have not been warned about the impact of academic dishonesty. The video of the ringleader shows the cynicism of his environment. </p>

<p>This SAT scandal is not much different from the stories of paint-by-the-numbers Intel applicants. Are Ward Melville High School, Lawrence High School, and North Shore Hebrew Academy, on that same LIRR line? And is that the same train that leads to the Intel packaging factory at Stony Brook University?</p>

<p>Juvenal had it right: “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”</p>

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<p>Yes, but he had a great business opportunity in TUTORING, but he and the others chose not to do that!!! Too much honest work and no “guarantees”, I guess!</p>

<p>Five Towns area (on a different train line to Garden City) is an orthodox Jewish enclave. North Shore towns of LI have it all: WASP, wealthy, Russian, Asian, Irish Catholic, everything.
I do not think we can generalize this as a reflection of just this area. The SAT cheating phenomenon is occurring in many many different kinds of schools and communities, including overseas. Helloooooo, CB/ETS!!!</p>

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<p>I grew up on the LIRR line too, across the street from my house, although I rarely if ever took it. St. Albans/Jamaica; no, not W.I., but mostly black folk, none the less! We were in NYC, so we took buses, then trains to get to work and school. Every day, several times a day, everything in my house shook for several seconds at a time. Never thought much of it. Moved to LA, everything shook…I’m thinking train, but it was an earthquake.</p>

<p>Ok, back to our regularly scheduled program.</p>

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<p>Yes, and the common denominators are easy to spot, especially the expectation of education as a social climbing tool and the unabated cultural acceptance of academic dishonesty. Add that to lack of real consequences, and you have a explosive cocktail. </p>

<p>And, as other have said, ETC/CB while cognizant of the rampant cheating abroad have not only failed to implement drastic measures (suspend all tests in problematic countries) but only displayed a deep laziness by recycling US tests abroad, leading to foreigners with the “right” information sources to take tests they saw previously.</p>

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<p>^^ Born2dance94, maybe your community’s school wasn’t, but were any of your community’s students? North Shore Hebrew and St. Mary’s draw students from all the surrounding communities (and beyond).</p>

<p>I just don’t think there’s that much difference in the culture of competitiveness and achievement between GN and the neighboring communities. ::shrugs:: The schools didn’t cheat on their SATs/ACTs; the students, who are imbued with that culture (for better or worse) did.</p>

<p>(For the record, yes, I know these cheaters are outliers. I grew up in the area and never cheated on my SATs or any other tests, nor do I know any of my peers who did. Does it surprise me that it happened there? Not for a New York second. :wink: )</p>

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<p>Is he going to name the people who paid him to cheat?</p>

<p>I’d also like to know how the kids who paid him were able to put their hands on $2500.00 without their parents knowing. I don’t think even rich Long Island kids have that kind of money in their wallets.</p>

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lol Okay, there I can actually answer from direct experience: many do. Not all, and we certainly have many underprivileged areas, but here it’s not so hard to get that kind of money. Between babysitting and tutoring gigs, I can make that money in a few months. Babysitting around here is $10-$15 an hour. The parents here go out for long periods of time, so you usually get about 6-7 hours of babysitting at least every Friday and/or Saturday night. Tutoring (even tutoring middle schoolers or elementary kids, which these kids could have been doing) is around $25 an hour. I know kids who spend an hour a day doing homework with young neighbors, getting $125 a week just from tutoring.</p>

<p>Also, for sweet 16s (usually for the non-jewish kids) and bar/bat mitzvahs you get a lot of money.</p>

<p>And of course, there is the chance some of the parents forked over the cash. but it’s not impossible the kids paid for it themselves.</p>

<p>@Mudder Unfortunately, I honestly cannot answer that. The kids who don’t go to the public high school have their own friends and rarely hang out with the rest of us. Here, each school basically is a community in and of itself. A kid at St. Mary’s or NS Hebrew more likely spends their time with friends from those schools than friends in their town. So honestly, I wouldn’t know if any of the kids are from my town (though I presume not, or I probably would’ve heard. I know the names of a lot of the people involved, and so far none are from my town).</p>

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<p>“He didn’t cheat people out of their lifetime of savings, package loans and securities that he knew were worthless, defraud people out of their homes. (I once lived near Great Neck. It is likely that at least some of the parents that paid the bill for the kids to have their tests taken did just that, and more.)”</p>

<p>We need to examine the case with foresight. Hypothetically, these cheaters all get accepted into good colleges. For every cheater accepted, a well-deserving kid gets elided. Now who knows where these cheated kids will go? Maybe if they had gotten into the school that the cheaters got into, they would have gotten better jobs, better opportunities, better lives. Maybe this caitiff ignoramus did not directly steal a lifetime of savings or defraud people of their homes, essentially that is almost certainly exactly what he did. Think about it on a colossal scale.</p>

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<p>^^^
It looks like at least somebody is studying for their SAT. MAybe you’ve got a future in the test taking business. "Catiff? " - yes. “Ignoramus?” - I guess it depends on your point of view.</p>

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<p>“Maybe this caitiff ignoramus did not directly steal a lifetime of savings or defraud people of their homes, essentially that is almost certainly exactly what he did. Think about it on a colossal scale.”</p>

<p>I’m thinking about it. And it isn’t even close. None of the colleges joined the criminal complaint. ETS didn’t join the criminal complaint. No one will provide any evidence that it made even the slightest iota of difference in the actual college admissions. It’s a reasonable theory, but it’s only a theory. Which is why the case will be pled out - the prosecutor will have a heck of a time proving a significant crime was committed. This is not to excuse the behavior, only to note that it didn’t occur on a colossal scale, unlike the stealing of a lifetime of savings, and the defrauding people of their homes (most of which will never, ever be prosecuted).</p>

<p>Meanwhile, those posing as real estate brokers, financial advisors, stockbrokers, and bankers go along their merry ways. The kids are just in training.</p>

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<p>wizkid, I like “elided”. Good word.</p>

<p>Mini, don’t you hate to read the posts here from kids who tried their hardest, got 1800 (legit) on their SATs, and have to wonder if they’ll get into any of the schools they’d like to go to? I do.
Wiz- here’s a good yiddish phrase to use and enjoy: Gonif Gadol.</p>

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<p>I do hate it, and I especially hate it when what is stacked against them is the institutional cheating that made it possible for many other kids to be living in Great Neck and going to Great Neck North (with teachers paid north of $100k) to begin with. Compared, this is stuff is really, really, really small potatoes.</p>

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<p>Has there been any information concerning the scores he was able to obtain for his “clients”?</p>

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<p>^^^
It’s been in the articles. IIRC in the 2100s and low 2200s.</p>

<p>There’s likely a contingent of people here on CC who would suggest he needs to pay someone to take the exams for him so he can get a decent score. :)</p>

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<p>No, mini, to me at least, it isn’t small potatoes.</p>

<p>Hey, I agree with you that a lot of Wall Street is less than honest. I’ve worked in the securities industry and so I know that first hand. </p>

<p>But most of the really big crooks didn’t do the first dishonest thing in their lives at 30 or 40. No, if you go back in time, they started their less than honest path much earlier. Some of them have parents who bought their way out of trouble for them. Some had teachers who “looked the other way” because of who their parents were. Some had employers who “suggested” that they “resign.” My old business landlord, a small law firm, “laid off” an employee we all believed was responsible for a series of petty thefts. He almost certainly had a HUGE gambling problem which had left him thousands of dollars in debt. He got a glowing reference, of course. Who wants to be sued for defamation or libel? </p>

<p>I firmly believe that you have to “nail” the person the first time they do something crooked and get caught. You do this for several reasons. First, if you don’t, the wrongdoer is extremely unlikely to change his/her ways. Second, if (s)he isn’t punished after being caught, the wrongdoer will up the ante and hurt someone else. Cheaters are like sex offenders or those who drive DUI. It’s RARE that they are caught and punished the first time. </p>

<p>But finally you have to do it because if people see them get away with it, more people will cheat too. Seriously, if the WORST thing that happens to you if you cheat on the SAT is that your score gets canceled , do you think there will be more cheating than there will be if the colleges are informed and you are charged with a crime? </p>

<p>I’m not a fan of Washington & Lee for other reasons, but I admire its “you cheat and get caught, you’re expelled” policy. I suspect that it doesn’t attract a heck of a lot of applicants who cheated their way through high school.</p>

<p>Am I saying give the kid solitary confinement for 50 years? No. But you and I both know that if a poor kid stole 50 grand from a bank, he wouldn’t be looking at community service. And if he gave interviews saying that it was the bank’s fault because it made it so easy to steal, he wouldn’t get a heck of a lot of sympathy. </p>

<p>As someone else said, two wrongs don’t make a right. The kid should get some jail time–about 30 days or so. Yeah, there are a lot of people who ought to be prosecuted and haven’t been. That doesn’t make it right to pass on this.</p>

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<p>He “committed” a non-violent offense. I don’t think that deserves jailtime. Expulsion from school? Depends on emory’s interpretation of its relevant code. Fines and community service? Sure seems fair. But to be locked up with assaulters, rapists, and killers? No. He doesn’t pose a threat to his community.</p>

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<p>Um…I did say jail, not prison. </p>

<p>So, no rapists and killers. More like shoplifters, those who used other people’s credit cards, and those who drove DUI.</p>

<p>In most states, folks who plead guilty to and/or are convicted of misdemeanors aren’t imprisoned with those who committed felonies.</p>

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<p>jonri,
I appreciate the effort you have taken to explain your position. I am in full agreement that little lessons in morality make a big difference in character development. I would put this on the “medium” scale, very much in need of corrections and punishment of some kind. This is no “peccadillo”. It is a sign of weak character to be “proud” of cheating, being an imposter, lying about one’s identity, and so forth.
It is wrong, no matter who serious the consequences of the crime.
Anyway, the laws, the system, all are at fault, too- for being asleep at the wheel, for ignoring these cases. So let’s just wait until it becomes NORMAL to cheat!<br>
There are institutional dissimilarities in education, opportunities and resources, but I think the admissions system tries to equalize out some of that.
Let us just boycott the SAT if all it does is teach our kids that cheating pays.</p>

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<p>Jonri, I’m with your thought process 110% both on what this kid should be dealt and your thought on giving him a pass because so many others get away. Unfortunately, like the pre-2011 Sandusky situation, too many peoples’ priority is just wishing it would go away. </p>

<p>One thing about the kid - at least no fake remorse.</p>

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<p>“I firmly believe that you have to “nail” the person the first time they do something crooked and get caught.”</p>

<p>Okay, but what are they going to nail him for? The prosecutor will offer a plea because the case against him is so weak. And the moral will then be that he didn’t cover his tracks well enough. Which is probably the way those posing as real estate agents, financial advisors, stockbrokers, and bankers living on the North Shore feel about those who actually get prosecuted for anything. It’s all part of the cost of doing business.</p>

<p>“But you and I both know that if a poor kid stole 50 grand from a bank, he wouldn’t be looking at community service.”</p>

<p>So since he is likely to get community service, the moral will be? (it would start with, “Gee, glad I’m not poor.”) Think the judge will make him give back the money? (I doubt it, but…) And give it back to whom? Those who paid him? Their parents? A scholarship fund at his college?</p>

<p>I don’t approve of what he did. But it is really, really small potatoes.</p>