<p>I don’t think its adequate punishment. However, I have to think that this will make it very hard for them to get into a good university, much less play lacrosse at the college level. I cannot imagine any coach looking at either of them now. </p>
<p>If the conviction had been expunged they could have checked off that they had no felony convictions. I read somewhere that one of them wanted o go to medical school someday. Without an expungement a felony sexual assault conviction would keep you out of just about every medical school. Too much of a liability.</p>
<p>Good luck finding a women’s shelter willing to take them on as volunteers.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is adequate punishment, but I don’t know how much power the higher court had to modify the terms of the plea deal.</p>
<p>A permanent record of felony sexual assault should keep them from becoming lawyers, too. Never mind playing lacrosse – good colleges won’t want them, period.</p>
<p>According to the discussion at the prior hearing before this judge, it appears she could accept, reject or modify the plea agreement. Looks like she modified it. </p>
<p>The boys hadn’t been sentenced. There’s no “higher” court involved here. The deal the prosecutor gave them said that they could withdraw their guilty plea at any time…which I’ve never heard of, but then I don’t know anything about Kentucky courts. So, the judge could have changed the sentence dramatically. The boys would then have had to decide whether to accept the sentence or withdraw their guilty pleas and go to trial.</p>
<p>I do want to add that one of the attorneys…I can’t recall whether it was Savannah’s or the Courier’s …said that he’d never heard of a guilty plea that could be withdrawn at any
time .</p>
<p>Update: no guarantee, but the judge left open the door to reducing the charges to misdemeanors in the future. That creates the possibility that the convictions will ultimately be expunged. It’s just not automatic now. </p>
<p>The judge DID order the boys to tell Savannah who else saw the pictures. I hope it wasn’t many people and that the photos can be retrieved or deleted. </p>
<p>Stepping back for a moment, let us recall that these are young kids. </p>
<p>There actually IS a possibility that they are capable of learning from this experience, and that they will grow to be deeply ashamed of what they did. Reading the interview with Zehnder, he seemed to be at least part way there already. I hold out less hope for Frey, because not only did he fail to exhibit any sensitivity or remorse in the aftermath, but his father seems to be a flaming jerk and appallingly bad role model.</p>
<p>I don’t think that 50 hours of community service is sufficient, and the whole thing of being able to go to the junior prom really burns me up, but neither would I gloat about the idea that they are barred from various professions for the rest of their lives. What they did was very, very bad. But they didn’t torture and kill someone, for god’s sake. </p>
<p>I certainly hope that the damage to Savannah is mitigated by her courageous decision to speak out and refuse to accept a wholly undeserved burden of shame and embarrassment. Frankly, her welfare is my personal priority in this case.</p>
<p>I just don’t think that safeguarding her welfare requires completely obliterating the possibility that the boys have the wherewithal to lead productive lives. I think and hope that redemption is possible for them.</p>
<p>Stepping back into the fray (and CC in general, which I’m trying to avoid) because I’ve been closely following this case. </p>
<p>This punishment is just another slap in the face. It says to Savannah that what the boys did was TECHNICALLY against the law but that it’s not worth anything more than a few hours of their lives. It’s saying to her “we did this because we had to by law, but we really don’t see anything too wrong with it”. As a survivor whose assailant was never brought to justice, I really think I’d have him never be convicted than convicted and sentenced to that. It’s just gut-wrenching and it makes me (I can’t speak for Savannah) feel as though the person doesn’t think it’s really wrong. </p>
<p>I hope there is a full scale investigation into EVERYTHING that went wrong in this case. This poor woman has been failed by the system at every turn. </p>
<p>With that said, I also disagree with this going on the boy’s permanent record as long as they stay clean until the age of 24 or something. I do, firmly, believe that kids that age can learn and grow. That doesn’t mean they will, but I’m not prepared to give them a life sentence of not being able to x, y, or z because of a decision they made as juniors in high school. To me that says to kids that they can never change and it really, in my mind, defeats the point of a juvenile justice system.</p>
<p>I hope that the fed brings charges. This is insufficent. The judge could have rejected the plea. They have no defense against these water downed charges and could have been sentenced to 3 years in jail No jail time was not right. This will not discourage anyone.</p>
The biggest message that I see that’s learned is that you can get away with a technicality for doing such a dreadful thing. What was the judge thinking?</p>
<p>“I just don’t think that safeguarding her welfare requires completely obliterating the possibility that the boys have the wherewithal to lead productive lives.”</p>
<p>People who spend three years in prison go on to lead productive lives. Different lives perhaps, but productive nonetheless. Maybe not the ones they had planned on, as “Ivy League lacrosse players”. Petty thieves in my community get far worse than they did, though they’d never be Ivy League lacrosse players. </p>
<p>Sex offenders are, it is said, likely to reoffend. Why would one even consider expunging their records?</p>
<p>I listened to her victim statement to the court. Loved that she flat out told the prosecutor to his face that he re-victimized her and her interests seemed the last thing he was interested in. Would be nice to believe that he would take something away from that but, given his behavior throughout, that seem unlikely. She also confronted one of the defense lawyers and commented that she noticed he wears a wedding ring, and wondered if he had a daughter and how he would feel if his daughter or wife or mother had been assaulted the way she had been and someone tried to belittle them the way he had her. She also said that, given the way the boys parents had behaved, she could see why the boys could bot seem to understand what they had done was wrong as the apple does not fall far from the tree. Gutsy girl. I’d liked to have seen the faces when she was saying all this. Hope they were squirming, but probably not as they all seem to lack any sort of conscious. </p>
<p>She seems satisfied with the outcome. I have to admire her courage.</p>
<p>Gutsy indeed. I too doubt that this prosecutor learned anything, but hopefully other prosecutors are paying attention.</p>
<p>According to CNN, the boys’ attorneys read apologies on their behalfs, but SD said it meant nothing since the boys didn’t have the guts to read them themselves.</p>
<p>There’s a certain irony in the fact that these awful adult’s attempts to let the boys get off with a slap on the wrist and silence SD have led the story to go international (it has been reported in England at least) and that it was on Anderson Cooper tonight. Richwalski in particular was mentioned on AC 360 as having been influenced by his relationship with the boy’s school. Doesn’t do any good for his reputation, deservedly in my opinion. They should all be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Sadly I think they just feel sorry for themselves and still don’t get it.</p>
<p>People, please don’t start trying to make me the poster child for letting them off easy.</p>
<p>That is not what I said, and not what I meant.</p>
<p>I don’t know what would be exactly right, but certainly SOME jail time would have been reasonable. The punishment they got was too light, IMHO.</p>
<p>The prosecutor ought to be disciplined professionally for failure to acknowledge and avoid conflict of interest. He ought to be fired. The fact that his office essentially backed him up by allowing him to continue on the case speaks volumes. </p>
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<p>Well, if your community is locking up 16 yr old petty thieves for 3 years or more, then your community is probably doing a great job of turning dumb kids into career criminals. In any case, neither of these guys is going to be an “ivy league lacrosse player.” As swimcatsmom said, the efforts of the lawyers and prosecutors to get them off with a wrist slap have, happily, rebounded upon them. Their names are known to millions. They would have been a lot better off with 6 months in juvie and no notoriety.</p>
<p>BTW, both of them STILL have lacrosse recruiting videos up on youtube. It is mind-boggling.</p>
<p>I agree. Their actions have been so outrageous (at the time of the assault and afterwards) that my main concern going forward is that other women, who may come in contact with them, are forewarned. Concern over the inevitable detriment to their lives of having a record or being on a registry doesn’t justify putting anyone else at risk. imho</p>
<p>I was just discussing this with my H. He thinks that they will be playing lacrosse at some college a year from now, albeit as walk-ons. (Something that he finds totally deplorable, I should hardly need to add, but around here…) I told him that I don’t think it will be forgotten so quickly.</p>
<p>Although I continue to be boggled by the fact that Frey and Zehnder have not taken down their recruiting videos.</p>
<p>I am curious about the thoughts of young women on this whole thing. Have any of you discussed this with your HS or college Ds? If so, what did they say?</p>
OK. Although you didn’t actually answer my question. Perhaps your answer was implied in what you did say.</p>
<p>I’ve read that statement a number of times, from various authorities. I suspect that it is true, certainly for most rapes. But I like to see some data, and not just statements. Where did this conclusion come from?</p>
<p>And, perhaps selfishly, I am particularly interested in sexual assaults that occur in particular situations–i.e., parties in college where there’s lots of alcohol. Is the sex that occurs in that situation about power? Maybe it is. In that situation, how does the predator choose his victim? I don’t know for sure–I suspect the degree of intoxication is one thing–but I can’t help thinking, based on the kind of study that I found, that boys are more likely to want to have sex with girls they think are “sexy” or “seductive.” Would you disagree with that?</p>
<p>Hunt, of course it is about power in those cases as well. Maybe the initial intent of the male in the situation you described was not to rape. He was horny and she was hot. Lust at its best. Then the female says no. The man can cure his lustful feelings all by himself by masterbating. I believe it’s 100% effective in diminishing the drive. OTOH be can assert his power over the woman who said no, and get his release by using her. Yes, rape is always about power.</p>
<p>Many of them talk about a culture of rape, where male students see themselves through bonding together through sexual conquests. On campuses, rape is both about power, and fitting in.</p>