School of Cinematic Arts Hopefuls-Class of 2014

dreamupsided0wn · August 21, 2013, 5:10am

Hi everyone, I just wanted to comment on a few things corvin posted above. His insight is great, but keep in mind it is the insight of one person with a set of very specific experiences; as is mine. (Actually… I know some of the people he mentioned in his post so I suspect he might be in my circle of acquaintances.)

I found his generalizations on Critical Studies and Production majors to be highly reductive. I am a Critical Studies major; due to the amount of coursework I undertake, the films I make, and the jobs/internships I take on, I have little to no free time. I know many Production majors who don’t overload themselves with coursework and have plenty of free time; I know many Production majors who have studied abroad, taken on double majors and minors, and interned at many places. I know Critical Studies majors who have taken Production courses that are only open to Production majors. I know people who have double majored in Critical Studies and Production. I know busy Screenwriters, Interactive majors, and I know plenty of slackers.

YOUR MAJOR HAS LITTLE WEIGHT ON WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR TIME AND THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. I cannot stress this enough; one thing that irks me is a general opinion among many Production majors that all Critical Studies majors do is “sit in a room and analyze a film” and can’t “write and make one” (by the way, I do both - I want to be a screenwriter). That is not what we do, whatsoever. We study film history; you are familiar with the adage that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We study patterns in filmmaking, the evolution of genres, how films can influence people and how they can reveal the darker underside of a society. We study film censorship, the invention of television, why films are the way they are, why certain films work and others don’t. But above all, we develop the skills that it takes to criticize something that we love. You can neither love nor understand something without embracing all of its flaws. So many Production majors think that film history, theory, and criticism doesn’t affect them or that their major doesn’t require them to know it. Well, in the real world, it is pretty important to be able to make a good film and sell it too, so you better believe some of this “boring course work” is pretty important. And you know what? I have taken boring classes in Critical Studies, and I’ve taken boring classes in Production too. I’ve also taken really interesting classes in both departments, and I’ve learned how to avoid the topics I have no interest in to maximize my learning experience. Most Production majors do not take more CTCS courses than what is required, so it’s pretty difficult to imply that they are all boring/inferior when you have not taken all of them.

Also, please note that USC is need-blind and they have a very robust financial aid program. USC will meet 100% of your USC-determined financial need. I grew up in a very poor family, and USC met my financial need with a university grant that covered my entire tuition. Yes, your mileage may vary, and unfortunately if your family owns a lot of assets you will likely have to take out loans. Just keep your expectations reasonable.

You can make a film for almost nothing. As corvin emphasized, it’s the story that counts. Some people will spend a ton of money because they have it, but this is where your creativity comes in. The school does offer scholarships and works with other organizations (like Alfred P. Sloan) to offer production grants. The key is having concrete ideas laid out and paying attention to deadlines. Yes, filmmaking is expensive, but SCA will give you many resources to help you along the way, especially if you show them that you are worth their investment.

Above all, please be yourself. Do what you love and what you’re good at. Your major does not determine your career; working at production companies, I’ve met people who majored in economics and engineering and have vibrant film careers. Many filmmakers did not study film in college (keep in mind film school is a relatively recent invention). Don’t think that this sole acceptance/rejection will determine your future. Be creative, work around the obstacles, and always be on your toes looking for new opportunities. I’m sure most of you will get in.

DarthFleur · August 27, 2013, 5:19pm

When are decisions sent out usually? If you find out you’re considered for a scholarship, would you know that you got in then?

ArtsandLetters · August 28, 2013, 11:22am

@Dreamupsided0wn

I usually agree with everything you post but from a parent perspective this part is off:

That’s not true, especially if you read the posts on the financial aid thread. “Meets” 100% of need for most of the students has translated into massive parent loans. Even the financial aid office admits that the online calculator isn’t accurate. I sat in meetings with many other distressed families whose children were excited about their acceptances but whose parents couldn’t handle the financial burden or afford the loans. My D met quite a few admits on the FB page - many from lower income backgrounds - who had to turn down their acceptances because of lack of funds or assets to tap.

Yes - “some” students are getting generous grants - but I don’t want to see “hopefuls” getting their “hopes” up about what that “phrase” really means. And even the woman who started the financial aid thread admitted that she wasn’t allowing her next child to apply to USC because she knew how financial aid worked and that she knew he wouldn’t get enough. I’m not sure what formula USC uses, but the change in federal law that allows people to withdraw retirement savings without penalty, or in the alternative, take out massive loans without having to prove they have a job or income to match has made the situation a bit precarious for families.

There is at least one poster on this forum that is dropping out because second year financial aid made it impossible to return. And the daily Trojan (when I was on campus last week) ran a similar article about a young woman from a family with few assets having to do the same when her financial aid was downgraded because her sister graduated from college and USC did not count her sister’s graduate school admission - nor the family burden on prior undergraduate loan obligations - as being applicable to the formula.

So I just caution students applying to USC to assume the worst case scenario financially (which is you’ll be responsible for most if not all of the tuition) - and then anything you get will feel like a bonus.

LayraSparks · August 28, 2013, 11:35am

@DarthFleur Decisions are sent out by April 1st. If you’re considered for a scholarship, you get your admission packet in January/February and then you have to attend Explore USC, where you’re interviewed. And yes, if you’re up for a scholarship, you’re admitted. There are actually posts about this somewhere on this thread.

madbean · August 28, 2013, 5:59pm

I just want to add that, in general, it is really harsh to expect millions of high school age students–and their parents–to suddenly become experts in the decidedly wonky system of college aid.

The language to describe funding is terribly misleading. Need–in FinAid lingo–does NOT mean the amount of money a family truly requires (needs!) to be to pay the bill to send a student off to college. Need, in this odd context, is now a word that means the amount of money due that’s left over after the sum the college calculates the family’s should/must pay. This process is masked, each college has a different formula, and some schools will use “assets” in the calculation that may not truly be available (businesses, property, ex-spousal income) as well as conditions (siblings in undergrad, sudden windfall payments) that may change over the years. It is wise, prudent, and money-smart to learn as much as one can about this notion of “need” before assuming any amount will be handed over to a particular student in grant-aid. I really recommend every applicant and their family read the thread at the top of our USC forum regarding FA. The opening pages, in particular, do lay out all the fine points and do not guarantee, promise, or infer that all families–particularly middle and upper middle class families–will get what they may believe they need–in the traditional sense of that word. I thank alamemom for a lot of time and effort to try to explain how it all works.

USC and many other better-endowed privates do say they’ll meet 100% of that need (tricky number, that) but to do so they may offer a combination of grants (the free money that most sensible people would assume is what FA is/should be), sub and unsub federal loans (amounts required by Fed law to be part of every FA package offer), work study (which is, seriously, only the OK for a student to apply for a certain class of campus jobs which must, in truth, be found, applied for, and worked by the student), and yes even more loans. Just by offering students a series of loans, that qualifies as Financial Aid for which a college can then claim credit for this “help.” I think USC is to be commended in that they do not use any additional loans (over and above the req’d Fed loans) as a component of aid to meet “need.” Many schools do, while many do not even guarantee to meet full need–not even with loans!

Frankly, I only would count the grant $$ and any merit scholarships to be real, honest aid. After all, those are the only funds that a student can subtract from the bottom line. I also, personally, consider the federally subsidized and unsub loans to be reasonable–for the student to take some responsibility and debt for their educations. Currently, I think 4 years of sub and unsub fed loans add up to about $25,000… but every family and student needs to think seriously about getting into any type of debt.

The point I’m reaffirming is that it is dangerous and harmful to make generalizations about how good or how horrible any particular school’s FA is except for maybe the top 3 universities who have the resources to give mostly grant aid to a majority of their students. However, USC does do extremely well for students with truly low income, no assets, no family business or divorce households. In addition, I’ve read here on CC and know in real life families whose grants went up significantly over their student’s years at USC. One was due to a father’s death; in several cases a loss of job, and in another a new sibling entered college.

I do wish–for everyone’s emotional health–students applying to college would spend a little less time falling in love with a particular school and realize that not only are they getting 4 great years, and a terrific education, but they are buying a very expensive “product.” It can be especially hard on loving parents who value the great college our kids were admitted to, when the prudent financial answer–after weighing the true COA–is to say no or make extreme sacrifices.

This has been a long post–and truly off-topic for this particular thread. Yet, it’s true for SCA students as for all students: Wonderful, deserving students coming from solidly middle class families seem at the disadvantage in the FA calculations. It can be a painful lesson, so stay savvy out there.

alamemom · August 28, 2013, 9:13pm

EXCUSE ME???

THAT is not at all what I said. What I said was that, AT OUR INCOME LEVEL, our expected contribution would be more than we were prepared to pay and that other options were available to him. I KNOW how financial aid works and so I am able to easily estimate how much my child would receive and we CHOSE not to spend that much. I, unlike you, am fully aware that my family is very lucky to be significantly above the median income level in the United States and so I, unlike you, do not whine about the fully predictable amount of aid my child did/would receive.

YOU have made the choice to allow your child to attend a school that you have stated is unaffordable. Other families have guided their children to consider cost and choose a school that does not strain the family budget. YOU did not. If USC was unaffordable, you should have guided your child to make a better choice rather than warning low-income students that they won’t get enough aid based on your upper-income experience.

As stated on page ONE of the FAQ for Financial aid Thread, USC uses the CSS/Profile to distribute USC grants which considers assets the FAFSA does not. I included a simple, ballpark-estimate method. If your child calls the USC financial aid office, they will explain exactly what increased your expected contribution. In ALL my dealings with the USC financial aid office, they have been completely transparent.

Yep, last year that same poster was posting about their unexpectedly generous financial aid. Now the sibling has graduated. Yep, the financial aid changed. See page ONE of the financial aid FAQ. THAT is the way it works.

Yep, at colleges and universities across America. THAT is the way financial aid works. Had those individuals done their homework, they would not have been surprised (or, if they had read page ONE of the Financial aid FAQ…).

And I just caution readers to understand that ArtsandLetters appears to be VERY uninformed about financial aid. Or at least so says the woman who started the financial aid thread.

ArtsandLetters · August 29, 2013, 8:05pm

Ummm - wow?

I don’t know where the anger comes from in the above post and particularly the lack of empathy for students or parents who can’t meet the financial burdens here and on the fin aid thread but I stand by my comments and I hope other posters will take my comments to heart.

…Do your best, hope for the best, plan for the worst case scenario on financial aid because for many students this year that was a tough conversation to have “after” the acceptance letter arrived and the euphoria set in…

Also, scroll up to the top of this page to post #106. @Madbean has been a great voice of reason on this and other threads.

For the record, I’m a current USC parent with a student at the film school. I know how hard applicants have to work to get accepted, and how expensive it is once they do. We knew the risks in terms of financial aid and our family took them on without hesitation. But if you read the financial aid thread careful (especially the 2013 posts), or the article in the Trojan if you have access to it, not every student who dreams of attending USC can shoulder that burden even when they are lower income or middle class. They assumed “meets need” would result in more “grant” aid than they received.

On the other hand we did not restrict our child’s college choices based on financial aid probability and never wavered in a commitment to help pay for the tuition if USC sent an acceptance. But I do know other families where that calculation had to be made. So have that conversation with your parents now. What can you afford? How high can you go if the financial aid is more loans than grants? If USC is your dream school, does that change if the cost is higher than another college?

I also know from experience that drastic changes in FA after Freshman year aren’t as common as some will tell you because schools worry about retention when doing Fed reports. Modest ones, yes. Life changing adjustments - not often.

**This is a SCA thread so it is worth saying that the film school is transformative, and amazing in so many ways. I’ve been really impressed so far with the staff and the facilities. ** So aspiring applicant should really concentrate on both your main essays for USC (Common App) and your supplemental essays for SCA. It’s a small incoming class - only 4% admitted for what in some departments amounts to only a few dozen spots. Be true to yourself. Let them see your passion even if it is not directly connected with a film project. Colleges “build” a class from students with a variety of backgrounds and interest and those needs change from year to year so you never know what one thing will attract an admissions committee’s attention.

btw - Have a back-up plan ready - there are a lot of schools on that top 25 list - don’t pin all your dreams on one place. But USC is worth aiming for!

Good luck to the 2014 applicants. Fingers crossed for both acceptance and attainable financial support.

blueskies2day · August 29, 2013, 11:00pm

Nice post ArtsandLetters. I too tired of being told how to manage our finances and thought the view on this forum was very narrow. It comes off as going to USC is only worth it if you got it for free or with huge amounts of aid. And I fear that message has gotten out around the world. I think overall many times this forum devalues USC by sending the message USC will fund students cause that is the only way they can get good students. If you read many of the posts by incoming students, they say, “I am interested in USC because of their aid package,” not because it is a great school. If you give away and devalue your product, you end up with a devalued product. I wasn’t thrilled to hear that a student at orientation was asking, “Are you really paying for this place?” How about earning your way by paying for it, who is really entitled to a free education except the most elite of students? I think it is an amazing school and worth the sacrifice or debt, but that is only my opinion for my family, whatever each person chooses to take on is their choice. By 18, I would hope kids can’t emotionally blackmail their parents, if so, that is an issue for that particular household to deal with. You can afford it or you can’t, and how you choose to afford it is up to each person. Telling someone not to take on any debt and go to a “lesser” college is as reckless as telling them to borrow it all. Hearing the holier than thou speech about how they chose a certain path was annoying. Managing college is each person’s choice to make. Telling them how to apply and things to consider can be helpful, acting like an authority figure and telling them what to do (which happened way too much) is not.

dreamupsided0wn · August 30, 2013, 2:51am

I didn’t mean to start a war here but ArtsandLetters, I did not make any outlandish claims in my initial post about financial aid…

**Also, please note that USC is need-blind **
USC is, in fact, need-blind. Some schools DO factor ability to pay as part of the admissions decision (Columbia and UChicago, for example, use this method in admitting international students).

**and they have a very robust financial aid program. **
USC does have a massive financial aid program!
According to USC’s website, “the total of all gift aid to undergraduates is over $290 million” and “over $429 million in financial aid was awarded from all sources for 2012-13 (including work-study and loans).” Furthermore, “need-based grant funding has increased by 40 percent since 2009” and “a major goal of the current fundraising campaign is to raise over one billion dollars in endowment funds to provide additional scholarships and grants for USC students.”

“Two-thirds of USC undergraduates receive some sort of financial aid” but “among the 2012 entering first-year class, more than 70 percent received some form of financial assistance, with nearly 30 percent receiving a USC merit-based scholarship.” USC enrolls more low-income undergraduates than most private research universities - almost 25%, because they are need-blind. Lastly, the national average loan debt for private school students is $29,059 - USC’s in 2011 (the same year) was $22,091. And, USC’s three-year cohort default rate in 2009 was almost 11% lower than the national rate. You cannot claim that USC has an inadequate financial aid program when faced with these very public facts.

**USC will meet 100% of your USC-determined financial need. **
Note the word “USC-determined.” USC, on their website and in numerous university publications, promises to meet 100% of your financial need as determined by their methodology, which includes the CSS/Profile.

**I grew up in a very poor family, and USC met my financial need with a university grant that covered my entire tuition. Yes, your mileage may vary, **
I pointed out that mine was a specific situation and not an average example. I’m not trying to deceive anybody.

and unfortunately if your family owns a lot of assets you will likely have to take out loans.
Again, I pointed out this fact - which is public knowledge, because USC uses the CSS/Profile.

**Just keep your expectations reasonable. **
^^^ being the takeaway of my statement.

And yes, my financial aid went down after the first year too - and I was pretty annoyed. However, it went up in my third year (and I got a merit scholarship added on)! Things change, incomes fluctuate, it’s really difficult to predict something like this unless you at least try - affordability shouldn’t discourage people from at least applying and seeing how much aid they get.

Mynemezzo · August 30, 2013, 2:10pm

Hi there. I’m the transfer student that everyone seems to be mentioning a lot.

I realize that the second quote is regarding another student. However, I simply want to clear things up. There is no way I could have “done my homework” any more than I already had. My situation, and I’m sure the situation of many others as well, doesn’t always fit into your Financial Aid FAQ. I’m really not trying to sound bitter or snarky; you have obviously helped many many families understand the system.

I’m simply stating a fact. I couldn’t do any more “homework.” I did not know that my mother was going to pass away before I began my first year of college. I did not know that my 8 month old sister was now going to have one parent, and thus more resources would obviously have to be diverted her way. I DID know that my sister graduating undergrad would have an affect on my financial aid. But, like the other student in question, I did not know that my family supporting her in grad school would not “count.”

So please…I kindly ask that you do not use me as some “warning” example of what happens to students if they don’t do their “homework.” All of the above information was in my financial aid appeal with proper documentation. The appeal was rejected, and the fact remained. I was simply not willing to go 100k+ in debt for college. That was my own decision.

Please, please, please - everyone - leave the financial aid arguments out of a thread about the SCA. It is an amazing school, and students deserve to have an open, inviting forum to talk about it.

ArtsandLetters · August 30, 2013, 2:19pm

No problem, @Dreamupside down. I’m glad it worked out for you and your posts across the USC boards have been helpful. It’s all good and sorry for any distress.

USC is amazing. As long as students understand that when they apply the results for FA will vary, they should be fine. Yes - USC does post impressive numbers, but the reality is that those reported numbers don’t show the parent portion which has caught a lot of middle class and low income kids off guard. It isn’t “reported” as student debt even though the university receives the proceeds. The student fin aid numbers may also include the average loans carried by students who didn’t finish out the four years because those loans are still funneled through the servicer as having been paid to USC for the years the student attended.

USC does seem to factor things such as retirement assets into its calculations despite the age of the parents which (if the parent works at a firm that provides retirement funds) may come as a shock especially for parents close to retirement age.

Still,there are many low income students whose parents have “no” assets to tap (and/or are renters) who are finding that they EFC is higher than parent income and are having to decline. The “generous” financial aid is in the form of access to Parent Plus loans.

Hence, hope for the best, prepare for the worst, don’t become too attached to any one school.

One note: At least ten or more colleges and universities outside of this (but alas no films schools that I can see) are more generous with aid for low income families and are need blind (Harvard, MIT, UPenn, etc.) Their established policies are that if families make less than $X per year, the tuition is free. And at least one gives only financial aid, not merit aid and has seen its applicant pool explode despite of the policy. So the distribution of assets is more transparent.

Still - in all fairness, USC has an awful lot of students on campus and money only goes so far so the “internal” calculator they use may be the only fair way to evenly distribute funds to students who accept their admissions offers.

Some interesting articles from USC:

[Students</a> see issues with financial aid | Daily Trojan](<a href=“http://dailytrojan.com/2012/09/26/students-see-issues-with-financial-aid/]Students”>Students see issues with financial aid - Daily Trojan)

[USC</a> must shift focus to financial aid | Daily Trojan](<a href=“http://dailytrojan.com/2013/08/16/usc-must-shift-focus-to-financial-aid/]USC”>USC must shift focus to financial aid - Daily Trojan)

I actually appreciate USC’s willingness to have this dialogue out in the open.

Mynemezzo · August 30, 2013, 2:39pm

ArtsandLetters -

Conversations about financial aid, I can understand. But there seems to be a lot of back and forth arguing - he said, she said type things - and I personally don’t really think that this is conducive to getting questions answered.

But I understand what you’re saying. I am just a college student (so what do I know haha) but I do urge students and parents to determine very early on how much they are willing to pay/go into debt for a college degree. This was something my family had decided from the get-go, and I personally think it’s important not to compromise on that matter, no matter how prestigious or competitive the school is.

I would also recommend students read the recent Rolling Stone article (by Matt Taibbi) about federal loans, given the changes of interest rates this summer. It’s crucial to be aware of what you’re investing in, ESPECIALLY if you’re unsure about post-grad employment.

Best of luck to everyone! :)

DreamingFIlms · September 5, 2013, 12:37am

How is everyone doing in the application process?

LayraSparks · September 5, 2013, 8:49am

Just fine. I’m mostly done with everything, I’ve still got my Critical Studies Personal Statement left, and I haven’t filled out the Certification of Finances form. I’ve also got an SAT and two Subject Tests to sit.
How about you?

DreamingFIlms · September 6, 2013, 3:37pm

When are SAT scores due? I don’t want a late score to affect my chances.

Kirby1996 · September 7, 2013, 12:40am

Possibly applying for film production – depends on if I ED somewhere

LayraSparks · September 7, 2013, 7:00am

October scores are available from 24. October, and November scores are out 21. November. The December results are available from 26. December, so if you’re not applying for scholarship, those are fine too.

DreamingFIlms · September 13, 2013, 12:05am

I can’t apply for scholarship if I don’t have scores before December?

LayraSparks · September 13, 2013, 9:18am

To be considered for scholarships, you have to submit all by December 1, including test scores. I’m not 100% sure about whether additional December scores are considered if you apply before the scholarship deadline, but this is what their website says:

“We suggest that freshman applicants take all SAT and/or ACT exams by December of their senior year. Although we will accept scores from later sittings, we cannot guarantee that your results will reach us in time to be considered by our admission committee.”

LookingUp8 · September 14, 2013, 1:29pm

Hey guys!

On the SCA Film & TV application for the Writing Sample, one of the options is to describe a concept for a feature-length movie which you would like to develop. Does that mean I can write the first two pages of what would happen? Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

School of Cinematic Arts Hopefuls-Class of 2014

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