<p>Do not feed the ■■■■■.</p>
<p>^^ Ann Arbor and Madison are not cities? Not so informative.</p>
<p>LOL. Madison, with a metroplitan statistical area population of 569,593, is the 89th largest metropolitan area in the U.S. If Madison isn’t a “city” then neither are Syracuse, NY; Youngstown, OH; Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, PA; Harrisburg, PA; Chattanooga, TN; Mobile, AL; Portland, ME; or Spokane, WA, among many others. You’re entitled to your own idiosyncratic definition, of course, but in standard American English, Madison is definitely a city.</p>
<p>Ann Arbor is the center of its own metropolitan statistical area, with a population of 344,791. Because the Ann Arbor MSA immediately abuts the Detroit MSA to the east and the Flint MSA to the north, the Census Bureau also combines these three into a Detroit-Flint-Ann Arbor Combined Statistical Area with a population of 5.3 million. Add in Windsor, Ontario immediately across the river from Detroit and the metropolitan population swells to 5.7 million. Add in Toledo, OH which immediately abuts the Detroit CSA to the south and the total is 6.3 million. Rural? Well, if you head west or south out of Ann Arbor it gets rural pretty quickly. But Ann Arbor itself is anything but “rural,” and if you head east, north, or southeast from Ann Arbor it’s solidly developed for about 50 miles. Ann Arbor forms the western edge of one of the 10 largest metropolitan regions in the United States.</p>
<p>By Lou and Peter Berryman</p>
<p>She wears her lakes like a diamond tiara
Her necklace is known as the mighty Yahara
Around her the beltline is draped like a garland
And brings in commuters from way past McFarland
Chorus: Oh Wonderful Madison mother of cities
Queen of all Dairyland, waiting for me
Wonderful Madison, jewel of Wisconsin
With more than one high school and cable TV
Hard working mother you lion of business
From Shopko to Oscar’s and all through the Isthmus
But if getting a job doesn’t seem to be prudent
You can take out a loan and return as a student.
Chorus
When fat men with briefcases grab her attentions
She knows that they want her to host their conventions
Where bankers and Shriners make heavy decisions
Like should they see Deep Throat or go out to Visions.
(2002 update:)
When fat men with briefcases grab her attentions
She knows that they want her to host their conventions
Where bankers and shriners with laptop computers
Buy cheese for their wives on their way out to Hooters.
Chorus
Sweet mother Madison full of compassion
A liberal community after a fashion
You don’t have to worry if you do annoy her
'Cause for every person there’s more than one lawyer.
Chorus
Stand on the shoreline of town as you enter
Stand and admire the convention center
See how it hangs off the shore like a goiter
But don’t stand there long, it’s illegal to loiter
(Or, more recently: Stand there a while, now it’s legal to loiter)
Chorus</p>
<p>The OP said, “Mid-sized towns and cities, or suburban are fine.” So, it does not seem to matter whether Madison and Ann Arbor qualify as cities or not. They aren’t “far rural” and they are definitely lively college towns.</p>
<p>A bigger issue is financial aid. With her EFC, she’d need $20K+ from Wisconsin and $30K+ from Michigan. Her D’s stats are good (2000, 3.6, top 20%) but not phenomenal for an OOS student with need. I don’t see these 2 schools improving much on her chances at NYU for admission and adequate aid.</p>
<p>Chicago, WUSTL and Northwestern would be very reachy. </p>
<p>If she wants Manhattan, good math, and good aid, give Barnard another look. It’s a little more selective than NYU, but offers more generous aid in addition to all the other resources of Columbia University. Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke might be worth a look, too. Or some of the non-rural, Midwestern LACs like Macalester. </p>
<p>Case Western (Cleveland) grants a lot of merit aid (I don’t know about need-based). It’s less selective than most of the schools we’re discussing, but also attracts nerdy, high-scoring kids.</p>
<p>89th largest metropolitan area in the U.S. LOL!</p>
<p>^ How old are you?</p>
<p>^ From the quality of the posts, I’d guess about 11.</p>
<p>St. Louis University? Marquette? (If you can coexist with Jesuits.)</p>
<p>I didn’t even think of Flint being near Ann Arbor -
but I was thinking of Ypsilanti with (large) Eastern Michigan University 7 miles just from the U of M campus and both of the cities (Ann Arbor and Ypsi) bordering on suburbs of Detroit. This is a huge, bustling metro area. Internship opportunities in many fields. Full of “Things college students like” because there are so many college students there. ;)</p>
<p>All the town sizes are fine–more than fine. She’s willing to go to Northampton, I am pretty sure Ann Arbor will be delightful.</p>
<p>A couple of people have mentioned Barnard–she would love that, but according to our Naviance system it is a big reach for her. Much more so than NYU or UW Madison, for instance. She is a legacy there through her grandmother (class of 1956), but don’t know if that is worth anything either at this point. Anyway, we are very very familiar with the NY and metro area schools, which is why I started this thread to look further afield!</p>
<p>Re: paying, I can handle up to $30k a year so unless Michigan is $60k (!) it seems feasible.</p>
<p>Well, if you can handle that much more than your EFC ($11,600, right?), that’s good. Michigan would be about $45K/year for a residential, OOS student. I believe Wisconsin is about $33K.</p>
<p>Michigan (OOS) probably would be somewhat more selective than Barnard.
(<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/687793-selectivity-ranking-national-us-lacs-combined-usnews-method.html</a>)</p>
<p>Those rankings are really interesting. To me it shows that there are some geographical considerations happening.</p>
<p>Our Naviance system shows a “scattergram” of the scores and GPAs (anonymous) of every kid from her high school who has been accepted at a given college in the past 5 years. From there you can see, not the average nationwide, but the average that has been required for kids from her high school.</p>
<p>I looked up U Wisconsin Madison and the average GPAs for kids from the school who went there were 4.1 (weighted–exactly my d’s); average SATs 1983. Barnard was 4.5 and 2043. U Michigan was 4.3 and 1960.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No answer???</p>
<p>Annasdad, what kind of evidence do you want? I don’t think there is an official study on the subject, but most people familiar with Midwestern universities would agree. You are free to compare how private universities do with their respective communities:</p>
<p>Case Western University
Northwestern University
University of Chicago
University of Notre Dame
Washington University-St Louis</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Have you done a survey?</p>
<p>Or how about, in my opinion, the universities with the best town and gown relations …</p>
<p>Since I have no scientific proof of this, let us just agree to disagree annasdad.</p>
<p>There are many surveys of best college towns–just like those of best colleges. IMHO Alex is right and annasdad is just being difficult to be so. The best of anything always comes down to an opinion and depends on the criteria used.</p>
<p>[Best</a> college towns (and cities) ranked - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-09-08-collegedestinationsONLINE_ST_N.htm]Best”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-09-08-collegedestinationsONLINE_ST_N.htm)</p>
<p>I am amused by the claim that Madison isn’t a city.</p>
<p>For the sake of completeness, the largest city for a Big 10 school is Columbus (pop. 750k+), where Ohio State is situated (NU is in Evanston, after all). It would have reasonably strong math and philosophy departments. Whether it meets the OP’s other preferences would require investigation.</p>
<p>And we ought not forget that the Big 10’s newest member is in Lincoln, NE, which is between Madison and Ann Arbor in size.</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily disagree. I don’t claim to have a clue as to what the best town-gown places are, and I just wondered how you could be so certain. </p>
<p>Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using CC App</p>