<p>Wake is very upfront about grade deflation. Even spoke to it last year at parent orientation. As an example (now these should be all good students to start with) in my son’s freshman writing class there were 15 students–at end of semester 2 dropped, 1 A, 2 B’s, 3 C’s, 1 D and 6 F’s (statistics from students in class, if everyone was honest about what they received). In his bio class prof. told him he curved scores up so that there was 1 A in class (class had about 35 in it). I know my son spends many, many, many more hours working than his friends at Chapel Hill in similar courses.</p>
<p>Just keep in mind that even at grade inflated schools, some kids do poorly. With so many at Harvard getting honors, for example, it must stand out to those in the know when they come across a kid who did not graduate with honors!</p>
<p>Conversely, even at schools like Chicago, some students still get all A’s, if you count A-. I know of several.</p>
<p>It is interesting that grade inflation seems to give an advantage to the slackers, while deflation gives an advantage to the stars (by letting them stand out.) Maybe that’s why the grade deflated schools do very well in the academic honors department?</p>
<p>newmassdad hits it squarely on the nose. Since grade deflation helps the slackers this actually becomes a selling point for many elite schools. Everyone knows that athletes in particular are admitted to the Ivies with much lower scores and would have a much harder time graduating if the curriculum were more rigorous. It also increases applications and decreases yield. Why? Because a student well below the school mean could benefit by getting in and graduating from HYP if he engaged in strategic course choice so it doesn’t hurt to take your chances even if these schools are an Ultra Reach for you.</p>
<p>In contrast, the odds are much higher that a low scoring student admitted to Caltech or MIT for “balance” might not even get out with a degree. Scores aren’t perfect, but below a certain level they do correlate with poor performance in tough courses. So Caltech, MIT, and Chicago have a more self-selected applicant pool. Moreover, some students admitted to Caltech turn it down because they’re worried about grading.</p>
<p>When I went to Caltech the entire first year was Pass/Fail BUT something like a third to one half of the entire class got at least one F in their first two years [This is not true anymore!!]. Quite a few students transferred out to “easier” programs at Stanford, UCLA, Berkeley, Harvard, etc.</p>
<p>Conversely, my classmates who had at least an A- average basically walked on water. Grad schools competed to accept them and they literally went anywhere they wished. My stats were worse and I still got recruited by good grad schools.</p>
<p>Idad, I can assure you that absolutely none of the courses which I teach lack the rigor to result in a B+ with a 94.5% average. That is high school like grading IMHO.</p>
<p>In my undergrad courses I tend to challenge the best students which typically results in a cum grade of 85%+ resulting in an A. If the A grade rises above 90% I feel that I have failed to adequately raise the bar academically so as to require my students to think creatively and outside the box. Projects which give students unlimited time to complete, rarely have a class average of 80%+ and a high score of 95%+. I have never taught a class where a 90% cumulative grade was less that an A in 30+ years of instructing. And yes, I do not hesitate in assingning F’s to students who do not prove minimum competencies in a course I teach.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine teaching a course which is so easy as to yeild grades which ask so little of their students as you report.</p>
<p>mkm56, a look at WFU institutional research indicated subtantial less grade deflation than experienced by your student’s frosh year experience. In 2005 34% of seniors graduated with 3.4+ gpa honors. IR also indicates that 93% of seniors have a cum gpa of 3.0+.</p>
<p>This data does not indicate that WFU provides less than stellar academics. It most certainly does. However it does suggest that the specific data you cited is not typical of the grades which can be expected by the entire WFU student body.</p>
<p>originaloog: The workload for the course and the exams were extremely difficult. Out of 15, I believe no one received an A, a B+ was about as good as it got, according to S one may have received an A-. Many in the course received C’s and D’s. I too have taught many courses and found the grading quite strange. (My use of the term “curve” was meant to be facetious.)</p>
<p>originaloog, yes, I only gave examples of 2 of son’s classes—have not looked at institutional stats. I do know that a couple kids from his dorm floor last year transfered because of work load there (both of these were students in “pre med” track).</p>
<p>Idad, I misunderstood your post and stand corrected atlhough I too find the “curve” quite odd.</p>
<p>However moving on.</p>
<p>My dear alma mater Cornell has a long reputation of grade deflation. However I have looked at a median grade report for all undergrad classed offered in the endowed Colleges of Engineering and Arts & Sciences.The breakdown is as follows: A+ @ 0.9%, A @ 30.8%, A- @ 34.6%, B+ @ 24.5%, B @ 8.4%, B- @ 0.7%. There was only one course where the median grad was a C+ and one computer programming course where the median grade was a C-. And note these are median grades for approximately 1100 undergraduate courses offered during a single semester. The %age breakdown for only the College of Engineering is not significantly different, having about 6% more B’s and about 5% more A’s & A+'s.</p>
<p>These numbers makes one wonder if grade deflation is a myth.</p>
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<p>Wow! I do not believe that at “grade inflated” Harvard 65% of students receive A-s or higher. </p>
<p>Profs have different grading practices. S took two classes, one a continuation of the other. The profs were different; one curved, the other did not. The one who did not graded tougher than the one who did.</p>
<p>Marite, I was quite surprised with these numbers too. Though they are for only one recent semester it is not likely that other semesters would be radically different.</p>
<p>However Cornell is to be commended for being so transparent in order for their undergrad put their individual grades in some perspective. Who knows, we might be surprised at other college’s distribution too if they were made available to faculty and students.</p>
<p>And for a bit of clarification, I did have to plow through a lot of course reports so there may be some small errors. I did leave out ILR, Hotel Mgt, Vet Medicine, Law and ROTC grades but I think I included some of the AgSchool and Human Ecology College courses, not that they would make much of a difference.</p>
<p>It was interesting that the Econ course grades were among the lowest on general observation and of course the dreaded OChem accounted for 2 of the 8 B-'s. Hah!!!</p>
<p>WFU grade deflation is due to the fact that as an institution they never bought into the grade inflation cycle. For the most part, courses are graded on the basis of an expecation of the quality of work rather than on a comparison of other student’s work. There is no institutionally mandated percentages and professors are not required to give grades based on a curve. Some do curve and some don’t. It doesn’t seem to be a problem for professors to give 50% Bs one year and 30% the next. Naturally, there are some department’s that have a reputation for being harder than others. </p>
<p>When a transcript is sent, it is accompanied by a letter from the registrar’s office explaining the grade deflation compared to other universities. Quite some time ago this grade deflation appeared to be a problem for graduate/professional admission but the University became pro active at explaining their policy and overall it appears that most graduate/med/law schools know and accept the grade deflation reputation of WFU and the students don’t suffer inordinately. </p>
<p>In the years since WFU went to a +/- system with 95+ being an A (no A+ exists) only one student has graduated with a 4.0 (valedictorian in 2004) and it doesn’t seem to have hurt their admission record for post graduate work.</p>
<p>WFU sounds similar to Reed, for the past 21 years having an overall GPA near 3.0, and five 4.0 GPA graduates. Graduate schools know to adjust to the levels of these schools. It’s also easier to discern the top students when they’re not all bunched at the top.</p>
<p>W&M is upfront about grading, they talk to parents about it at orientation. Most students have slightly over a 3.0 when they graduate, and freshmen average slightly under.</p>
<p>For all the talk about Harvard’s grade inflation, to my knowledge, only two students (a brother and a sister graduating a few years apart) graduated with perfect 4.0. In other words, it’s not easy getting straight As.</p>
<p>This 1998 article from the Boston Phoenix strikes me as very thoughtful.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/features/98/04/23/GRADE_INFLATION.html[/url]”>http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/features/98/04/23/GRADE_INFLATION.html</a></p>
<p>“it doesn’t seem to have hurt their admission record for post graduate work”</p>
<p>keepmesane, this is good to hear. One of the things that has stressed my son out so much is that his friends at other institutions in “premed” have 3.8-3.9 gpa’s after fresh year, while he pulled a 3.69 at wfu. He has been afraid that his choice of an institution will hurt his future grad school aspirations and that he could have faired better with less work somewhere else.</p>
<p>Thanks ALL for your comments and marite great article :).</p>
<p>“He has been afraid that his choice of an institution will hurt his future grad school aspirations and that he could have faired better with less work somewhere else.”</p>
<p>It’s possible he could have an <em>advantage</em> if he <em>learned</em> more (by having to work harder) than his friends did at the easier schools! :-)</p>
<p>So right vossron and he does believe that which is why he is staying where he is----but sometimes the self-pity bug bites and he envies his friends who brag about how much fun they are having at their schools.</p>
<p>McGill is now working to bring grades down to a B- average in the undergraduate faculties.</p>