<p>And my point is, there would be a significantly less ammount of Christians (or any religion, for that matter) if parents didn’t tell their children what to believe.</p>
<p>No one knows for sure, and it’s pointless to argue</p>
<p>@JeSuis</p>
<p>That’s a matter of personal choice, though. Some people trust their parents/priests more than they trust scientists. My point was that believing scientists on the basis of their scientific authority is just as unscientific as believing priests on the basis of their religious authority. Not everyone who believes in God has been “brainwashed” into doing so. I personally stopped believing in Santa long before my parents admitted to me he wasn’t real. This doesn’t mean I am going to go around ridiculing people who cried when their parents told them Santa wasn’t real or whatever. It doesn’t mean I am going to go on some “crusade” for skepticism, telling parents that they need to stop telling stories.</p>
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<p>Many would argue that it is not the place of the State to determine under what beliefs children should be raised.</p>
<p>There would be fewer scientists if people were not given an education of science. Your “point” doesn’t add much.</p>
<p>^^^^ If parents (whether personally or through the school systems they pay for) didn’t tell their children what to believe, there would be a significantly less amount of evolutionists too. There would also be a significantly less amount of racists, round earth believers, good drivers, Democrats, and Colts fans.</p>
<p>Parents pass wisdom (and stupidity) on to their children. It’s the way life works.</p>
<p>“Brainwashing” really only applies to processes of conversion anyway. Typically, one does not “brainwash” children.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure Scientists have proven a lot more than any priest or religion has. You don’t need to have “faith” in scientists to know that for the most part (or at least part of the time, depending on how stubborn you are), their claims are undeniably true.</p>
<p>And there is a reason you go to a doctor, not a priest, when you’re sick (well, it depends how hopeless you are). There are plenty of people who pray and still die of cancer. There are plenty of people who don’t pray and survive cancer. In fact, there have been studies that show people who are prayed for (and know they are prayed for) tend to do worse than those who are not prayed for. I simply cannot put my faith in something that has been virtually disproven.</p>
<p>You do need faith unless you have personally verified their research/findings.</p>
<p>Big issue here:</p>
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<p>Science makes no claims about Truth. The best it can do is to make predictions which have a very high probability of actually occuring. No scientific theory can be called “undeniable” because scientific theories are always open to rejection and rectification upon new evidence.</p>
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<p>What studies? Anyway, all this means is that said people are more likely to be willing to shed their mortal coil and end their suffering if they believe they are going to a better place.</p>
<p>So according to you, there has never been a single scientist in the history of mankind who has proven anything… I can’t say I agree.</p>
<p>There have been studies that show that people who mention studies without citing references are usually making up said studies.</p>
<p>NEW YORK (AP) – In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.</p>
<p>Researchers emphasized their work does not address whether God exists or answers prayers made on another’s behalf. The study can only look for an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.</p>
<p>They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.</p>
<p>The work, which followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers, was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into science and religion. It will appear in the American Heart Journal.</p>
<p>Dr. Herbert Benson of Harvard Medical School and other scientists tested the effect of having three Christian groups pray for particular patients, starting the night before surgery and continuing for two weeks. The volunteers prayed for “a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications” for specific patients, for whom they were given the first name and first initial of the last name.</p>
<p>The patients, meanwhile, were split into three groups of about 600 apiece: those who knew they were being prayed for, those who were prayed for but only knew it was a possibility, and those who weren’t prayed for but were told it was a possibility.</p>
<p>The researchers did not ask patients or their families and friends to alter any plans they had for prayer, saying such a step would have been unethical and impractical.</p>
<p>The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.</p>
<p>Nice try Harvey… <a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/</a></p>
<p>They have proven that on scientific grounds, some theories are more likely to be true than other theories. And it’s not just according to me. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what science is. To quote Karl Popper:</p>
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<p>Good, your presence didn’t add anything to it.</p>
<p>EDIT: oh, never mind, you edited your post…</p>
<p>Still didn’t come close to referring to my post. While most scientists come up with theories, I’m still convinced that there has been at least one scientist in history who has proven something. That’s more than can be said for religion. And I’m glad you religious zealots can bind together and weave out any potential threat to your precious beliefs.</p>
<p>Ok, well there have also been studies that show praying extends one’s own life. However, that doesnt really comment on the existence of God anymore than your study does.</p>
<p>I mean the “intellectual” Christians of the 1700s would not have been phased by the study posted above. Many (like Newton) had already embraced the idea of a “noninterventionalist” God. The take home message here is that scientists simply cannot comment on “God.” Their role is learning about the natural world. However, the Divine is not something in their line of work.</p>
<p>I’m also glad that your lack of confidence in your religion forces you to create internet forums that ostracize anyone who disagrees with you. And @Rtgrove, the study itself said that it didn’t disprove god. I never mentioned god in relation to that link.</p>
<p>Fiction:
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<p>Fact:
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<p>^^ For the record, this forum was started by Adenine, one of the most vicous anti-religion people on these boards.</p>