For many of these graduate programs US Student Visa was a major draw - a chance to find employment in the US upon graduation and eventually acquire a green card. The online degree does not make this outcome feasible so there will be some loss of interest.
My son was just admitted to the GTech CS online masters program and his employer will pay for it. GTech won in the prestige+price category.
Depends on which “online degree” and from where. Like I said, top grads of U of L International end up in the City. Some HES grads go to the Street.
There is a difference between “remote” classes that involve a recorded lecture originally offered to an in-person class, and well-designed “online” classes that feature a lot of written discussion, papers, and enhanced audio-visual/media components.
It is impossible to avoid discussion on these classes. The kid who might hide in a corner on campus, still has to do required posts. There is a lot of writing.
Harvard Extension, to my knowledge, offers remote classes that are mostly recorded lectures, or at least the courses I have looked into have that model. Also note that HES has a class limit.
Online classes should have 20-25 students as an upper limit so that discussion can thrive. It is a community.
I have taken online classes that are superior in content and participation to in-person classes. Sometimes they cost more.
Many adult college students depend on online classes. The difference is the social life, and extra curriculars that appeal to traditional aged students. Those who are older and want the degree but don’t need the rest, learn fine on online classes.
The problems with online classes are clear with some subjects: sciences that require labs, music, dance and theater students who require performances, maybe others.
The fact that some people are suing schools for what they consider an inferior experience as those schools offered online classes this spring semester, boggles the mind. I hope people can find the positives in these classes.
But schools should spend the summer making them true online classes rather than just remote versions of the in-person ones.
What I found most helpful in college could not be found online – it was the interpersonal relationships and mentoring experiences. I was able to work with graduate students and professors in a psychobiology lab and able to cultivate relationships which led to my getting into graduate school and prepared me for my current career.
So @lamdch would you take the year off? Would you still be able to receive some mentoring via Zoom? For some majors, online classes will provide a way to continue, and there are benefits to both ways of learning, in-person and online.
I don’t think it is productive to find the negatives in online classes. Some level of acceptance of the reality of COVID is needed. There are many positives to true online classes (NOT the same as remote versions of in-person lectures).
If DS19’s fall semester ends up being predominantly online he will do fine academically but one of the most disappointing aspects is that one course is being taught by the department chair. It would have been a great opportunity for him to connect especially since his program is not that large and the class would be on the smaller side. I doubt the same opportunity will exist in an on-line format. I’m hoping if the class is small enough they will go ahead and keep it in-person.
I was not pointing out the negatives in online classes; rather I am pointing out a facet of on-campus college life that, for some reason, is not often discussed. My S is loving his HS online classes and is actually more productive with his time. College is, however, much more than classes and homework. Classes for some majors, as well as introductory classes where the expectation is that there isn’t a close relationship with the instructors/TAs (think 300-person intro Chem class), are probably perfectly fine online. But the reason people seek out the elite top-30 schools is for the intangibles they offer – the opportunities to get involved in special research projects outside the day-to-day classwork and to form long-term personal and professional connections that will extend well beyond their four years as an undergraduate. There is an old saying “It’s not what you know but who you know” for a reason.
“I don’t think it is productive to find the negatives in online classes. Some level of acceptance of the reality of COVID is needed.”
I can’t like this enough. The sooner we all accept the reality of COVID the sooner we can start redefining our lives and ways of being productive. Sitting around whining about masks, or no college sports, is self-indulgent. Our parents and grandparents lived through worse times. A little perspective.
I don’t disagree. But a small percentage of college students overall attend the elite top-30 schools. The majority doesn’t. In fact, the majority of the world doesn’t attend those kinds of schools. Most students in Europe attend schools with no college sports, little or no campus life, feel lucky if they get to talk to the professor (who doesn’t have to have office hours) and regularly attend 300-person lecture classes. Yet somehow Europe does OK…
For the majority of schools in this country, the trick will be to offer some of those “intangibles” while living with a post-COVID economic reality. And that is likely to include online classes and fewer of those “intangibles” and a more limited “college experience.”
In other words, just like, or even more economy-class than, community colleges and non-flagship state universities that primarily serve the local commuter population.
This does not necessarily mean that the academic content is inferior, though.
Galloway’s article is geared toward the elite schools, and while I agree that the substance of my comments is particularly applicable to these schools, opportunities do exist at other schools as well. My son’s first choice college is a very non-selective school overall but is top-rated in the field he wants to pursue; there are internships, extra-curricular projects, service opportunities, clubs, competitions, and national society involvement – none of which can be done well, if at all, online.
It really comes back to someone’s major/career interest and if they are seeking growth and leadership opportunities beyond the classroom. @Camasite broke it down well. If you want to be an accountant, it may be sufficient to attend only online classes, get your degree and get a job. Anyone “earning a pedigree” will probably do ok but establishing connections/networks can help one stand out among (thousands of) peers with similar degrees. For those pursuing graduate study, connections are essential. I attribute my daughter’s acceptance into a grad school program which selects only 3-5 candidates each year to the relationships she was able to develop with her faculty and with her advisor/mentor, specifically. They were able to get to know my daughter as a person, her strengths and weaknesses, and were able to convey this in meaningful recommendations.
One of my kids is meeting weekly with a mentor on Zoom. It is not ideal, but it works. My kid is also experiencing a seminar for her department on Zoom, and an informal meeting every Sunday arranged by the students themselves. “Office hours” are available as well.
It is possible that some internships and volunteer opportunities will also surface online.
This is a process of adjustment.
Of course, many schools are actually going to open as usual, and some will be hybrid.
Nothing is going to be “normal,” regardless of what colleges decide. There will be limitations on social life and extracurriculars even if schools open. That’s the reality.
My main hope is that none of us kids (or their families) get really sick.
I didn’t mean to sound harsh, and certainly not toward any one poster. Perhaps the tone of my comment about “Not being productive” was as much to myself as anyone else.