Sealed juvenile record revealed...?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Yeah, it’s worse. The law in general, and the police in particular, seems to get pretty emotional when one of their own is attacked. A “cop killer” trial will receive much more publicity and a heavier sentence than one involving a little old lady. Not that I’m equating your D’s situtation with a cop killer, but they (and especially the FBI) may take assaulting a police officer much more seriously than an assault on a private citizen. I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know whether this contributes to the leaky seal or not, but it seems like it could.</p>

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<p>I am NOT familiar with California law, juvenile or otherwise but informal probation in a juvenile proceeding sounds a great deal like “Informal Adjudication” in juvenile cases in Texas. Roughly akin to “Deferred Adjudication” or “Unadjudicated Probation” in adult cases. In such cases there is never a finding of “Delinquency” (Guilty in the adult arena). The court says in effect, “I find that sufficient evidence exists to adjudge you Delinquent (Guilty), but I decline to adjudge you delinquent, and defer that adjudication under the following conditions: 6 months informal probation,and blah, blah.”</p>

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<p>Coureur, I appreciate your distinction, but two 16 year old girls kicking a cop is not the same as shooting a gun at one.</p>

<p>Well, D told me today it’s OK for me to hire a lawyer if I want.</p>

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<p>I think two teen girls having a tantrum (and it was one) when the cop grabbed them is very different than “attacking” a police officer</p>

<p>I would do whatever it took to get this off Ds record…</p>

<p>I find it scary that one group-State, the people that actually handled the case and decided how it should be handled can be overridden by another-Feds, that really had nothing to do with such a minor event and that when you are promised something, well, it seems those promises don’t have tob e kept</p>

<p>I would be furious</p>

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<p>I spoke to a friend who works in administrative law for the county. She says we need to get this expunged. I called a lawyer she recommended. He would have to petition the court for an expungement. If necessary we would get statements of D’s good character. As it’s a sealed juvenile record I don’t see why the request would be denied.</p>

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<p>I think it will work out fine, just having to deal with this is, how do I put it, icky cause it appears records aren’t safe or sealed anymore</p>

<p>Sigh</p>

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<p>Well, I’m glad this happened now, while she’s in college, and not four years down the road when she’s applying for a teaching job.</p>

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<p>Your daughter is not a victim–she screwed up bigtime and need to own that fact–there are consequences for acts of violence with the police. Most of us support that. I don’t blame the FBI for keeping track of those who get violent with the cops. Many of those do go on to bigger and better crimes.
So get a good lawyer and go through the somewhat cumbersome process of having this expunged but don’t act like it never happened.</p>

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<p>Barrons: in my swell town cops are likely to accuse people (especially people of color) of “attacking” them, or “resisting arrest” when in actual fact they are attempting to comply with police requests. Since you and I were not at the scene when this incidence took place, it is better not to be quite so judgemental… JMHO.</p>

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<p>I concur with AnxiousMom. There are many, many police officers whom I’ve encountered who just don’t understand the limits of their power. There are ones who have made up incidents (“You were weaving all over the road,”), or who have overstepped their bounds (once was pulled over at 2 am, even though my driving was fine, so the cop could posture for his boss about cracking down on drunk drivers - hadn’t had alcohol in weeks - was 21 - was quizzed for a solid 15 minutes about my activities. None of your freakin’ business, buddy - I’m old enough to drive past midnight, have my own apartment, I’m sober, and my driving is fine.). I’ve known cops to target young people - went to fight a traffic ticket once, and there were about 30 other people waiting for that cop - honestly, I was the oldest of them. </p>

<p>Lots of questions here - was this an arrestable offense (i.e. walking away from school grounds)? Did the officers try to FIRST respectfully and peacefully get the kids into the squad car? Did the kids really resist? Were they told their rights? </p>

<p>Not saying that all police officers are bad - I’ve had the good fortune of knowing quite a few wonderful ones - but there are some who let the power get to their heads. In a situation with a 16-year-old girl (presumably unarmed) and a police officer, the balance of power tips so sharply in his favour that I’m not going to automatically assume that she was in the wrong. Doesn’t mean she was in the right, either - but that is what the court is for, and her punishment never included having her record available to potential employers. If that is part of the punishment, she should have known about it at the time of the trial. Not right to have it happen later.</p>

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<p>Well of course not, which is why I said:</p>

<p>“Not that I’m equating your D’s situtation with a cop killer,…”</p>

<p>But you seemed to be arguing that what your daughter did was not as bad as assaulting a little old lady. Under the circustances, I would tend to agree with you. However, in the eyes of the law, and particularly the FBI, it might be actually regarded as worse, not better. Assaulting a police officer is often a separate crime from assaulting a private citizen, with its own heavier punishments. And maybe that is having an effect here.</p>

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<p>I agree with courer
I am not in the legal system- but it is possible that there are a few terms that are excluded from sealing. Assaulting an officer may be one of them.
Since that is what is apparently in the file- it wouldn’t matter what actually happened- the “threat” to the officer would be what is considered.
Not saying it is right- far from it- I know there are lots of cases where police officers go overboard-how many people are roughed up in custody and it is put down that they are “resisting arrest”?
fact is- when they have the badge and the gun- they have the power- and they don’t want to see that power threatened certainly not by a pair of teenagers.</p>

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<p>CCurmudgeon, in California “informal probation” generally means that the person has been convicted of something (or in juvenile court, that the petition has been sustained) and given probation, but that there is no probation officer assigned to supervise the person – the only requirement is that the person stay out of trouble for the duration. </p>

<p>In California court, a procedure such as what you described - where the charges are deferred for a period and then dismissed - would be called “informal supervision” not “probation”. </p>

<p>I found a good chart illustrating this here:
<a href=“http://www.scselfservice.org/juvdel/process.htm#process[/url]”>http://www.scselfservice.org/juvdel/process.htm#process&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The problem is that under California law, the use of the word “probation” means that the court has retained jurisdiction, and in juvenile court to have jurisdiction, you first need a jurisdictional hearing where the allegations of the petition are adjudged to be true… and as soon as you have that, you’ve got the juvenile court equivalent of a conviction, even though that word is never used. </p>

<p>You’ll see that a period of 6 months’ period of informal probation is one of the possible outcomes of a dispositional hearing after the petition is found to be true at the jurisdictional hearing - which is the juvenile court equivalent of a conviction. </p>

<p>Kinshasa, the county clerk was correct to tell you that your daughter did not have a “conviction” – it is impossible to have a “conviction” of anything in juvenile court. But the point is, that under some circumtances, a juvenile adjudication is treated the same as a conviction. </p>

<p>What you needed was a “dismissal” and you didn’t get that – though it is also very likely that you could not have gotten that result at the time in any case,
given the allegations against your daughter. (As an aside, the general way to get a “dismissal” of charges of battery against a police officer is for the accused’s lawyer to file a complaint against the cops for police brutality along with a claim for money damages & request discovery of the cop’s past disciplinary records in the criminal or juvenile court proceeding: it’s amazing how many cases go away under those circumstances. See anxiousmom’s & aries’ comments above) </p>

<p>It is likely that whatever legal advice you were given at the time was probably very cursory, given the immediate consequences – your daughter was probably simply told that if she “admitted” to something, then she would be allowed to go home and wouldn’t have to come back to court – and of course that the record would be “sealed” and that it wasn’t a conviction. (But “sealed” just means that no one outside the court system can see the records without a court order - what is “sealed” can always be unsealed). </p>

<p>Anyway, under those circumstances, you would have been so relieved that you daugher wasn’t being locked up that you probably wouldn’t have spent time asking a lot of questions - and I am quite sure that if your daughter had a public defender, the lawyer would have been too busy with other cases to have spent more than a few minutes explaining what was going to happen.</p>

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<p>Yesterday I spoke to a well-respected juvenile attorney here who referred me to someone in the county where the record was sealed. There are procedures to follow, he said, but her record can be totally deleted from all files, including the FBI.</p>

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<p>Barrons, the point is, her case was pretty minor, she didn’t get jail time, had a kind of probation as was promised her records were sealed…but that promise wasn’t kept</p>

<p>If the FBI has nothing better to do than search out records of juveniles who make some a mistake once, boy I feel my money is well spent…don’t they have more important priorities?</p>

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<p>To add to ariesathena’s point above: My oldest son is native Costa Rican. I wish I had a dollar for every time he has been pulled over by the cops. His first car was a 1986 Cutlass Supreme. What a combination: brown skin and a gangsta car. He worked graveyard shift and was dropping a friend off at his apartment complex. Cops followed them into the parking lot, ordered them out of the car, slammed my son against the hood, searched the car, and made a derogatory remark as they left. My son had the presence of mind to submit peacefully to this behavior. It would have been his word against theirs.</p>

<p>A son of my friend was arrested for trespassing at a local fast food joint. He and his friends were outside at tables waiting for their order. It seems the police had an arrangement with the mobile home park next door to keep an eye out for trouble. When the cops asked them what they were doing there, they told them waiting for their food. When they were told to leave, my friend’s son asked one for his name and badge number, at which point he was arrested, put into a patrol car and driven around the parking lot several times. My friend collected enough evidence-- ATM receipt, cell phone records, witness statements, etc.-- that the judge found the charge not true. It was obvious the officer had lied that her son had been physically abusive and disrepectful (I didn’t know that was a crime). After the judgment, the officer threatened my friend in the hall outside the coutroom.</p>

<p>These are perhaps two extreme examples-- but there are real abuses of power in our criminal justice system and in today’s climate, the authorities are often assumed right.</p>