<p>i am grateful to hear from all of you! the kids on CC can be pretty brutal! nice to chat with parents!</p>
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<p>sjmom, I’ve done a lot of wondering about this, as well. Some thoughts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Smaller family sizes produce higher achieving kids because parents have more resources to give: time, energy, money, opportunities. Every year, the bar gets higher for these kids and parents. But…</p></li>
<li><p>The achievements are possible in part because mom and dad run interference for S and D, helping to maintain a structure at home that can’t be matched when they leave for college. We are the personal secretaries, drivers, calendar-keepers, disclipine-makers, reminders, tippy-boat righters, etc… for our kids, especially our boys, whose abilities to multi-task are often much weaker than our girls, and whose prefrontal cortexes (which help with planning and predicting consequences) are more slow to develop. Well-meaning parents help to simplify life so that the kids can maintain precarious balancing acts that defy what we could have accomplished as kids (from larger families). College coaches might adopt some of these roles or provide some structure for new college students, but most non-athlete kids are left to their own devices. S has said repeatedly in the past couple of weeks is “If there is one thing I’ve learned since leaving for college is that everything is a lot more complicated than it seems.”</p></li>
<li><p>Technology. Especially video and computer games (which boys play more than girls). It allows them to become careless because the mistakes are virtual. They can always hit restart when they screw up too badly. And there are “short cuts” and “cheat sheets” when they don’t feel like going the long way around. This perhaps diminishes their experiences with perseverence, though I know that “winning” a computer game requires some kind of staying power, just not sure it the same kind as college does. Technology also encourages risk-taking because the consequences of failure are so minimal. Even something as staightforward as a research paper. I had to type mine on a typewriter; mistakes had to be painstakingly erased with whiteout or weird erasable ribbon; whole pages had to be retyped sometimes. It certainly made me plan ahead and be very careful. Technology and multi-media also have increased the capacity for input but decreased the time for reflection, which would seem necessary to actually learn from mistakes. Why mull over a failure, why dwell on the reason for a nagging melancholy when there are all those Facebook pages to check in with and Youtube videos to watch?</p></li>
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<p>Just some observations. YMMV. And I’m not sure what I would do differently to prepare S for college.</p>
<p>Appreciate yout thoughts, Happy. However, my son’s prep school counselor spent lots of time focusing on the right fit- as did my husband and me. Our son was quite clear about what he wanted- and the school he chose seemed to fit the bill academically, socially and athletically. The reality of it just didn’t meet expectations, due to some changes in him, an athletic injury that won’t resolve, and the extreme alcohol-focus of his dorm and social network. He is an older freshman and has been away from home at school for a number of years. He is very disciplined and independent- and social. I did NOT expect to have these issues with him. I spend a lot of time discussing one side of this kid, but the other side is that he now sees St. John’s as his academic dream school. It doesn’t meet some of his other needs, but he would love nothing better than to read great books, study classics and debate with fellow students and faculty. How we got from wanting the most intense pre-professional business school in the country to bailing for the Utah wilderness is somewhat confusing. I can handle helping my son figure out what he needs from his college experience. I just didn’t expect to be doing it.</p>
<p>I think you make some really good points, momof2inca. It just seems that I’m reading more and more of kids running into a road block emotionally when they get to the goal they’ve been trying to reach for so long. I think we were just lucky with S1 – he’s happy and seems to be doing well, although I had to deal with my own excessively-high expectations about grades. I’m learning to just say supportive things, instead of suggesting that more study time might be helpful! :eek:</p>
<p>I’m just comparing the way things were when we were in college to the pressures kids have today. My immigrant parents didn’t have a clue about the American educational system, which gave us kids a lot of freedom. We could make our own mistakes without them looking over our shoulders. My husband’s parents were also non-judgemental. We could goof up and recover without an audience. I don’t think kids today have the same sense of freedom – they’re supposed to know where they want to go to school, what they want to major in and what kind of career they want when they are 17 or 18! I’m 47 and I’m still figuring that out.</p>
<p>Thanks, all, for sharing.</p>
<p>I dunno. I was a pretty sloppy undergraduate. My prefrontal cortex didn’t connect until I was 20–I can remember the different sensation. My parents might have tried to run interference for me–if they weren’t so busy trying to block every attempt to scale that wall of ambition. They were helicoptering–but in a different direction, LOL. Anyway, I couldn’t tell them any of the sex, drugs and rock n’ roll stories or they would freak–as indeed they did when I moved in with DH as a 24 year old. That generation gap had it’s own set of pressures. Personally, I was pressured to earn money fromthe time I was 8 years old. The joys of being a baby of depression + WWII survivors. Not all that wonderful from my perspective.</p>
<p>Nevermind me, the survivor, my parents could have thwarted some severe substance abuse by my brothers if they would have had just a bit more information and a bit less shame. Nah, I wouldn’t want to go back to the 60s and neither would my boys. </p>
<p>Friends tell me they want to die and be reborn as my sons. That’s exactly what I was hoping for–the life of Riley for the first 21 years and the confidence to go anywhere inthe world because you know that two very capable adults have your back. Just in case your bravado turns to custard–as mine did many a time.</p>
<p>MOWC-</p>
<p>Son’s GC had St. John’s on the top of her list for him last year! So I am not suprised at all that Wild Child is seeing it as an option. And again, what your son is saying is EXACTLY what son #2 said. There was no movement in that particular program for electives of any kind, to explore. And they are SUPPOSED to change their minds, that is something you can count on!</p>
<p>I am so sorry to hear about your broken leg. When it rains, it pours.</p>
<p>If I can help let me know.</p>
<p>Kat
ps. we tried to find schools similar to St. John’s academically (or programs) with some of the other stuff son wanted as well</p>
<p>MOWC- did your son look at U of Chicago? My son choose USC for numerous reasons last year, including financial [ full scholarship] but now is in the midst of reapplying to Chicago where he hopefully will be accepted again. He/ we didn’t realize many things about USC, especially that it is mostly pre-professonal as well. Chicago has the core, which is similar to St Johns program, and a student body that loves to learn, discuss what they have read and exault in “life of the mind”. Their deadline for transfer apps is April 1.</p>
<p>menloparkmom-
I don’t mea to hijack the thread, but can you tell a bit more about your experience with USC? We are heading out for a visit in a week.</p>
<p>Sometimes, I think that when a situation isn’t good for someone, they may over-react by going in the opposite direction. I think that St. John’s and the U of Chicago are outstanding schools. I’m just throwing out the caution that maybe they are an overcorrection. Are there more middle-of-the-road options under consideration?</p>
<p>Oh boy,
Well, Son hoped that USC would have a large enough population of really smart students, based on the # of hi SAT scorers that are there and a quality Humanties program, based on their offering the Thematic Options Honors program. He also choose USC because of the the Renissance Scholars Program, which supports those interested in double majoring in two diverse majors, but it turned out to be very hard to get good counseling on how to achieve his goal of a BS in Geology and a BM in Music. What he found was the smartest students were in the Engineering program, and there are very few students like him who love to read great books, and discuss things other than sports and where students were going in LA that weekend. We were also surprised that USC is such a commuter campus- almost 40% of the students are from SCal and many of them go home or off campus each weekend, because there is very little to do on campus except for watching USC teams. There is also a lot of LA myopic attitude - I’m important because I’m so-and-so’s daughter, etc. among some of the rich students, who aren’t there to learn but because “Daddy” got them in. Thank goodness he has his car, and is able to visit friends at UCLA often . Last night he said that he does not belong there, and what solidified it for him was the boorish, drunken behavior he witnessed all around him at the BBall game Fri night. That said, it is a great college for kids who KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO-i.e. it is a great choice for the pre professional- their Engineering program is terrific, the Cinema program is one of the best in the US, Thorton is a great Music school for those interested in music as a career, but USC does not offer a widely based Liberal Arts undergraduate education.</p>
<p>menloparkmom-
Hmmm… food for thought. I’ll pass this along. we are not from the area and though he is interested in a premed-oriented course of study of some sort, this isn’t locked in stone.</p>
<p>sjmom- I do believe St. John’s would be an over-correction for my son and is not an option for other reasons (they make you start all over-have to be there for all 4 years).</p>
<p>Chicago- yes, he applied last year and was accepted EA and was recruited strongly by the coach (who has minimal pull with admissions). I have mixed feelings about Chicago. I went to law school there and found it somewhat dreary, but I think it might be a good place for my son due to the intellectualism and the decent sports program.</p>
<p>I think his current school has a lot of strengths and can’t possibly be the he11-hole he is portraying it as being right now. I think my son saw himself as more of a city person than he turned out to be. He likes some space around him, being a Texan and all. 
He wants to run on some soft surfaces. He wants to READ, READ, READ. Unfortunately, he is also the drunken lout at the games. :)</p>
<p>MOWC – as a recent grad of the same pre-professional school your son is in (I’m pretty sure – I don’t know if you’ve stated the school anywhere), I’m sorry to hear he’s so unhappy. It is a tough place but at the same time, it’s an amazing place if you can learn to take everything you hear with a grain of salt. If he’s a frosh, is there a chance that he’s being hasty in deciding that everyone knows exactly what they are doing professionally and no one has any academic interests? If he leaves, will he miss certain aspects about the place? Regardless, sorry to hear he’s unhappy and feel free to PM if you’d like.</p>
<p>This might make some of you (us) feel better. I just had a long talk with my son’s wonderful advisor at his college. She was touching base with me since he was on this “leave”. She told me that in her many years of experience, that it is unusual for a freshman NOT to melt-down sometime during the year. She says frequently it is in October after the first midterm grades come out. She said this time of year is the second most popular time. She was very encouraging and I could tell that she actually knows and likes my son. I didn’t realize he had such a good relationship with her. I wish he would confide in her more and let her help. She is certainly willing.</p>
<p>I hesitated bumping this up but I thought I would give an update on my S. </p>
<p>He seems to be doing better. One, he found a couple of people to run with. They can’t run very often but it’s better than none and he’s getting out.</p>
<p>He had his appointment with the counselor yesterday. He called and made an appointment, he waited a week for the appointment which I thought was pretty good. (I am hoping that languagegirl sees this, I so hope that she will find the courage to make an appointment and go even if she has to wait a couple of weeks) He said that he thought that the counselor thought that he was a little weird, I don’t know what that means. He’s going to see her again next week which I am glad. Just by doing small steps he has really reduced his aniexty and I think that his mood is gradually improving.</p>
<p>Another thing that he did was to tell people how he was feeling (being left out, seems invisible to his friends) and it really helped. They must be nice people because they are making an effort to include my S. He’s quiet so I know how he can get left out of things. </p>
<p>He also targeted what was making him feel down and decided that there was one person who was very negative to him. I told him that some people just don’t like you. You don’t know why they don’t like you, but you rub them the wrong way and you can’t do anything about it. He’s been avoiding this person (this person was his lab partner and dropped my S among other things) and I think that this is helping his mood more than anything else. This person is also nicer to him when he’s around which helps also. </p>
<p>My S has options of places to live next fall but no roomate which he came to terms with. He applied to transfer but is undecided if he is going to or not. He’s also thinking of changing his major to Chemical Engineering. He really likes his Chemistry classes so he’s exploring that option.</p>
<p>Lots to think about and lots of decisions to make. He’s coming home next weekend, I’ll be so glad to see him.</p>
<p>Deb:</p>
<p>These are really promising developments! Kudos to your son for taking the initiative. It sounds like he’s really going to be all right, whether he stays or he transfers.</p>
<p>Deb,</p>
<p>I am glad things are going better. Its great he is getting some exercise.</p>
<p>"Another thing that he did was to tell people how he was feeling (being left out, seems invisible to his friends) and it really helped. They must be nice people because they are making an effort to include my S. He’s quiet so I know how he can get left out of things. "</p>
<p>Some people don’t recognize they are leaving others out or hurtings someone’s feelings… They are wraped up in their own issues or used to acting a certain way and no ones ever questioned their actions before.
IMO guys often assume if you want to participate you’ll say something.
Often when my son was upset with a friend, his friend had know clue why.
Often the case with husbands also. LOL</p>
<p>Deb – glad you bumped it up. Good for your son for starting to make these positive changes. I’m glad to hear that his friends are making some sort of effort too. </p>
<p>One thing that is hard, I think, is how long it takes to really make good friends in a new situation. For many people, it takes longer than a few weeks, or even a few months to really connect with people. So, that first year in college can be a pretty lonely time.</p>
<p>Deb: It is so exciting to see those little changes. Be very pleased with little tiny baby steps of improvement, those are more likley to last and be built upon. When my D was getting over the trauma of being stalked, it was little tiny changes, which, now a year later, have led her back up out of theblack hole to be her old self again, only even stronger and smarter self!</p>
<p>Also, don’t panic if there are tiny baby steps back along the way, as long as the long term picture is moving ahead you are okay ;)</p>