<p>Well, for fun: whenI asked my 3rd grade niece what her favorite thing was about school, she beamed and said “cursive.” </p>
<p>DH, btw, worked on a farm, one hs summer- and loves to tell the tales. The point is the labor. (Not whether they will end up as farmers.) My girls started doing Habitat- style projects early and were proud of the skills they learned. One still does that. I’d put kids who do rugged environmental projects in the same pile. Whatever. Some of this is also about connecting to others, beyond our own tidy neighborhoods or circles of like people. Away from our conveniences.</p>
<p>Hmm let’s see.</p>
<p>The Caramoff’s welcome mat.</p>
<p>The Caramoffs’ welcome mat.</p>
<p>The Caramoff Family’s welcome mat.</p>
<p>I think the last two are correct. Then again I had an American education.</p>
<p>We don’t put our name on the mat. Unless you think our name is Welcome.</p>
<p>Why can’t they just put the last name, forget the possessive? Caramoff? Like the mat in front of, say Nordstrom, says Nordstrom. Not Nordstrom’s or Nordstroms or Nordstroms’.
The whole apostrophe thing always feels like over-thinking (of the wrong sort.)</p>
<p>Oh mom-
So you spell the possesive for rthe Caramoff family the ame as for the Caramoffs family. Or the Frank family the same as the Franks family?</p>
<p>If someone write “this is the Franks’ welcome mat” the family name could be Frank or it could be Franks?
May be true but
not very helpful if you want to know who owns it. Maybe I will look it up when I get to a computer.</p>
<p>Lookingforward-
Obviously we are just discussing a point of grammar. Nobody would actually use the possesive on a welcome mat.</p>
<p>FYI - my vague recollection of where you place the apostrophe is that it only matters what the final letter is, and has nothing in particular to do with whether the vowel is singular or plural. So itWould be either Lois’ book or possibly Lois’s.book) because her name ends in S.</p>
<p>Sorry for all the typos. If somebody knows the definitive answer and has a source I for one would be interested because I admit to being shaky on this. After all, this thread is about grammar.</p>
<p>as I remember English, a welcome mat would probably refer to the resident(s) of the home, so if the family name was Camaroff, the the welcome mat should read
The Camaroffs
meaning more than one Camaroff lived there. I’d leave it Camaroff if the home had only one resident named Camaroff. I think that has a better sound and meaning than trying to apply a possessive, where the next word is assumed, as in:
The Camaroff’s. That way the word “home” or “house” might be assumed to follow.</p>
<p>Or to put it in CC relatable terms-</p>
<p>Harvard’s dean. Vs
Williams’ dean or possibly Williams’s dean (meaning the school, not someone named William)</p>
<p>What is correct?</p>
<p>Everyone please forget the mat example. That was a joke. I know what goes on a welcome mat.</p>
<p>Grammar includes proper use of the apostrophe- which is for possessive or contractions, not plural nouns. Someone else brought up “Caramoff’s.”</p>
<p>John and Betty Caramoff are “The Caramoffs”
Family name - Caramoff (would be good enough for my mat)</p>
<p>Assumed folks mean their house, not their mat. So it’s the Caramoff house or the Caramoffs’ house. </p>
<p>But, I know we’re getting silly. It’s Lois’s book, btw. Or Prince Charles’s crown. Dr Williams’s patients, if his last name is Williams.</p>
<p>But, Prince Caramoff? Then it would be Prince Caramoff’s chauffeur. His whole family? The Caramoffs’ driver.</p>
<p>Some x-posting, I know, but we have this first hand example of the challenges of getting kids eddy-cated. :)</p>
<p>Thanks younghoss. That’s clearer.</p>
<p>Bovertine: The correct way to indicate possession when a word ends in “s” depends on the style guide. AP says there’s no need for the additional “s”; other guides (U of C, I think) say otherwise.</p>
<p>Absweetmarie- thanks. Now if we are talking about a family named Franklin. Is it proper to write “the Franklin’s car” or “the Franklins’ car”?</p>
<p>I trust your answer so ater that I will suspend with the silliness of discussing grammar in a thread about grammar.</p>
<p>I’d rewrite the sentence to avoid that one and refer to “the Franklin family’s car.” But, seriously, the correct answer has to be your second option, because it is the car that belongs to all the Franklins.</p>
<p>I worked as a writer for a woman who had all the style manuals and knew which had which unique twists on rules. Bottom line, you have to know which manual your context will base expectations on. It made my head spin.</p>
<p>Ok. Lookingforward’s explanation looks reasonable, despite the insult.</p>
<p>what insult?<br>
No offense intended, friendly apologies. Something about 65 got me going.
Btw, I looked at the AP Absweet mentions- and it just reinforces that we all should just rephrase, as she suggests.</p>
<p>Maybe we should get off grammar, which, I guess, sometimes is like religion.</p>
<p>Actually I read your sentence about educating the kiddies as an insult but on second thought I read something into it probably because I am just annoyed that I had this wrong and it took me so long to get it.</p>
<p>I prefer arguing about things with a right or wrong answer. Even when I find out I’m wrong. At least I learn something in the process, as opposed to arguing for months about AA or some other such nonsense.</p>