<p>FWIW, I am not on FB at all. Don’t have an account, don’t look at D’s or anyone else’s either. I don’t know what kind of family life you all have, but even with a reserved D like mine, this kind of stuff slips out. It could be via chatter from kids other than mine in the back of the car, it could come out as result of me probing about why D stopped hanging out with someone she used to see regularly, etc. As for the girl’s manner of dress and sexy walk, well there wasn’t a soul at that event who didn’t notice THAT. I shouldn’t have used the term I suppose, but I guess I saw the reference as being a virtual construct for the purposes of this discussion. And you all were pretty quiet when other posters told similar tales about anonymous kids, so I guess I’m really going to need my new suit. Thanks!</p>
<p>Missypie- at the risk of being attacked… Today on my fb newsfeed sppeared pictures of teenagers I know drinking alcoholic beverages! I think the kids who post these things just don’t understand how public they are. Now I am struggling over whether or not to speak to their parents. I would want someone to tell me if it was my daughter, but other parents may feel differently.</p>
<p>holliesue, I’d definitely mention it to the parents. </p>
<p>My son’s senior year, a mom accessed her daughter’s facebook and printed pictures of kids drinking. She then provided them to her close friend, the commonwealth attorney, who proceeded to prosecute these kids. The mother made it her personal mission to make the “popular” kids pay for not adhering to her standards. She felt her daughter wasn’t being elevated to deity status by the other students and as a result wanted to make them pay. </p>
<p>Far better to hear from a concerned parent than the prosecutor’s office.</p>
<p>And PS.: D was the only girl in the one class they had together who would even talk to the child in question. But D had to pull back a bit when she noticed she was presumed to be engaging in the same behavior as the girl by virtue of the fact that she still associated with her. One mother actually called me up to warn me about D starting to be viewed as also being of ill repute because of that and because the girl talked about D a lot. </p>
<p>Some of you are as sympathetic as Job’s counselors.</p>
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<p>Whoa! Bet THAT made her daughter popular. If I knew the parent pretty well, I’d mention that they should check their child’s Facebook page.</p>
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<p>I think that a lot of that kind of talk and shunning behavior stems from jealousy or envy. As soon as my daughter had a serious boyfriend in high school, she was shunned by other girls who had been long-term friends. She was not acting in a promiscuous style – she was only involved with one guy, not many. Any changes she made in appearance were trending more conservative – she toned down the makeup because the bf prefer a more “natural” look. The bf was not the sexy macho type – he was more the shy, reserved kind of guy, slightly built. Band kid, lots of time spent with music practice. She was at an appropriate age for dating – age 17, junior – he was a senior, age 18. They did a lot of hand-holding and hanging out together, but nothing in public deserving of an R rating. </p>
<p>But immediately d. was persona non grata among girls who had been her close friends for years, and her social group shifted to the bf’s friends instead. My d. didn’t understand it – the friends who shunned her were also overtly rude to the bf and highly critical of him from the outset.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the girls who pushed my d. out of their lives told their moms, when asked why they no longer hung out with caldaughter – that my d. had transformed into a “slut”. </p>
<p>There’s probably a book somewhere that explains why teenage girls close ranks and behave this way. If not, there ought to be.</p>
<p>But the point is, there is a bunch of “mean girl” stuff going on in that sort of dynamic.</p>
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In my opinion, the value that colleges ascribe to these awards is -0-. My d. didn’t enter ANYTHING in the “honors and awards” part of her application. She had nothing to put there. She got admitted into college that were super reaches for her. </p>
<p>My d. did submit detailed info about her out-of-school activities. I think that for the most part, high school “awards” indicate that the student has been highly involved in their high school world … and significant outside activities show involvement in the world outside of high school. I think colleges tend to be more impressed by the off campus stuff. (One reason competitive sports or endeavors such as debate may also be valued is that it requires students from one school to engage with students from others … so while it is still “high school” … at least it expands the student’s experience beyond the bounds of their own campus).</p>
<p>OMG, people. This girl constantly TALKS about all her escapades and goes around telling people that she knows she’s going to get STD’s if she doesn’t have them already. Didn’t want to say all that, but since I’m a weak, neurotic person who cares what others think of me and my children, you pushed me to it in self-defense. No one is snooping, or jealously assuming, or anything else mean-spirited. I only mentioned her character in the context of asserting that there’s absolutely no way her peers would have actually voted for her for that particular senior superlative, which was why it was such a glaring incident of award fraud.</p>
<p>I’m beginning to find it difficult to believe that some of you are the paragons of virtue, the high-minded folks with nary an ill thought ever, that you present yourselves to be. Yes, you excel at being kind and compassionate to people in the abstract. How protective you were of every person even remotely mentioned here as having been rewarded improperly. The kids who got the honors, well they were all humble, unsung heros, and wonderfully deserving. The girl of ill repute, well she’s a poor thing with low self esteem and likely not even guilty of her reputation.</p>
<p>But to the REAL person you’re talking to–me–you’re very uncharitable, and deliberately ascribe to me all the worst qualities you can, picking on every word of mine that could have been better chosen. Don’t you think perhaps you’re behaving a bit too carnivorous? Lying in wait, ready to capitalize on any sign of weakness and eat me alive? </p>
<p>I’m beginning to think I’ll be happier going to the awards ceremony tonight, rather than stay home. It could be more enjoyable than this.</p>
<p>I’m nice.</p>
<p>The awards ceremony hasn’t happened yet???</p>
<p>For ones sponsored by the high school, the count is 2 down, 2 to go. But don’t take that to mean she actually was awarded something yet. They just like to invite her as if she were going to be honored, and then let her sit there as everyone else is.</p>
<p>Oh, my. Four awards ceremonies? And didn’t you have to pay some ungodly amount for one of them? For that price they could have thrown them all in there.</p>
<p>Just ran into another 2010 mom at the store. Her S is a great kid - plays two sports, top 10% of the class, never been in trouble. He was passed over for the Athletic Department’s “Sportsmanship (Male)” award in favor of a three sport athlete. 3 days after the awards ceremony the Sportsmanship winner, who is his team’s ace pitcher, skipped practice the day before he was scheduled to pitch in a playoff game in order to attend a concert. He would have been benched for that game, but he got caught drinking at the concert and as a result he was completely removed from the team. Meanwhile, the passed-over kid and a few teammates had sold or given their concert tickets away so they could be at practice. And it gets better. The team won that playoff game, thanks to the #2 pitcher who threw over 130 pitches. For their next game, the passed-over super-nice kid is going to be the starting pitcher. He hasn’t pitched in a month, due to am arm injury, which may-or-may-not be healed. He’s supposed to pitch next year in college, hopefully he doesn’t blow his arm out tomorrow trying to help his team. This situation never would have arisen if Mr Sportsmanship hadn’t decided skipping practice to get drunk at a concert was more important than his teammates. Hindsight is 20/20, I’ve gotta wonder if the Athletic Director would have made the same decision if awards were this week instead of last week. </p>
<p>TheGFG, we have a group of MIDDLE SCHOOL girls who named themselves the “Naughty Nine” and proclaimed publicly that their goal was to see how many boys they could sleep with in hs. I know where you’re coming from.</p>
<p>OTOH, Calmom, my D has been victimized exactly the same way your D was - ostracized by her friends when she had the audacity to go out with a friend’s ex-boyfriend. (She had ASKED the girl if it was ok, the girl said, “yes, absolutely! We broke up 2 months ago.”) Next thing she knew she was being called a boyfriend-stealer, and a rumor was circulated that she was pregnant. Good times :(</p>
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<p>Some of us just have been direct victims of the holier-than-thou crowd… as well as the ones who are quite sure that their offspring are far more deserving of any sort of recognition that our own kids happen to get, however rare that may be. </p>
<p>Having been on the receiving end enough times in my life, I tend to see the other side of the coin.</p>
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<p>You keep bashing people, albeit people outside the cc-circle – but you are bashing nonetheless. You have not said a single nice or positive thing about the kid who was granted the athletic award you decided rightfully belongs to your daughter, and you use derogatory and insulting language to refer to some high school teenager. </p>
<p>Some of us are responding to the bashing. Just because we don’t know the kids who are being bashed doesn’t mean that we aren’t sensitive to the fact that they are being maligned, in a context in which they have no means to present their side of the story.</p>
<p>GFG- you are right, I am not a paragon of virtue, I screw up often, I am just trying to be better which is why I initiated debate about the use of the word tramp. It just feels a little mean to me, I get that some girls and women and even middle schoolers present themselves in a less then prim and proper way, but what is the line? Do you wonder about and feel sad for the girl, or boy for that matter who presents themselves that way?</p>
<p>I think it is easier to have a boy, they get patted on the back for their sexual exploits while the girl can earn a reputation. Weird that it is still this way in 2010!</p>
<p>My son had no award expectations beyond one for crew which he recieved, seeing your child passed over and hurting must be very difficult, for that you have my sympathies.</p>
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<p>I thought this was a discussion among adults, not a teaching moment for kids.</p>
<p>We actually don’t use the word “tramp” around our household, rather we (my Ds and me) refer to girls and women who dress “trampily” as dressing “sleazy.” As in a vulgar, inappropriate, low-quality manner. We say this only among ourselves in the privacy of our own home, or on anonymous message boards when referring to a type of look, not to anyone in particular.</p>
<p>I suppose there might be some 15-year-old girls and their parents who are truly oblivious to the fact that skin tight, spaghetti-strapped tank-tops revealing bulging breasts, shorts so short that “butt-cheeks” hang below, and so low cut that"cracks" are visible, are inappropriate for a classroom setting, but I doubt it.</p>
<p>The point is that the way that the kid dresses has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the kid may or may not qualify to receive an award. </p>
<p>And one person’s view point about what might be an appropriate style of dress for a teenager may not be shared by others. On a message board with no pictures we are only getting an opinion, not fact. I mean, I’m sure that my grandmother did not appreciate the miniskirts I wore to school back in the late 60’s… but that was the style back then. </p>
<p>I don’t know what teenage kids are wearing these days, but when my d. was in high school, navel piercings and exposed midriffs were the fashion. But there probably were some parents who were appalled at those of us who allowed our daughters to get the piercing and wear low-cut jeans to school.</p>
<p>Our high school awarded “Athlete of the Year,” to a boy who was good but not a top athlete at our school. (He was in a “timed” sport, so I know this is true). He was a really great all-around kid, deserving of most of the myriad of awards he received, but I thought some more-deserving boys (Div 1 scholarship recipients) were gypped and probably insulted by his selection. The school should name the award something else, but not “Athlete” of the Year if they are not selecting a top athlete.</p>
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<p>Depending on the criteria it may still be legitmate to be declared Athlete of the Year based on races and championships won even though others had faster times at some point.</p>
<p>This phenomenon is well known in track and field. There are guys who win multiple world championships and Olympic gold medals but never set world record. And there are other guys who are the other way around - they set great times but cannot win the big meets.</p>
<p>It’s the ones who win the big championships that usually get AOY honors over great time-trialers.</p>
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<p>Was that the point? I thought it was a side discussion that took on a life of its own :)</p>
<p>For awards where “character” counts, or the recipient “embodies the spirit of the school”, etc. then I think how a student dresses is relevant - at least it would be to me if I were doing the selecting. It is very disrespectful and impolite to everyone around oneself, (teachers, students, et al.) to dress in an offensive or inappropriate manner in a place where others cannot avoid looking at you.</p>
<p>At my son’s h. s. freshman orientation 4 years ago, the administration discussed the school dress code. Looking around the auditorium, I noticed at least 2 dozen mothers who could have been sent home for dress code violations. Count me as one of the guilty ones who describes a girl’s attire as sleazy but usually only to my son or on an anonymous board. And not to be sexist, I have also criticized the male attire at his school–usually the pants on the ground–or the holding up of the pants by grabbing the crotch. I sure won’t miss that look when he leaves for college.</p>