Gotta say, intparent, I’m not liking the piggy in jail look at all.
back to incentives…
My son had the Zell Miller scholarship which paid for full tuition at Georgia Tech. In order to keep it he needed to keep a 3.3 GPA. If he went below a 3.3 but above a 3.0 he would have the regular Hope which pays a percentage of the tuition. Because we have 2 other sons that will end up in college our deal was if you lose the Zell Miller but keep the Hope you have to take out a student loan to pay the difference in cost. Yep he lost the Zell Miller, kept the Hope and now takes out a student loan to make up the difference. While I do feel guilty about it because Engineering is hard , I keep reminding myself that he should make enough money when he gets out to be able to pay it back.
Meanwhile our middle son(11th grade) will not be eligible for the Zell Miller only the regular Hope. So for him if he goes to a Georgia college and loses the Hope then he will need to take out a student loan to make up part of the difference. A student loan will not be able to make up the whole tuition difference but there is nothing we can do about that part and we really do want him to get a degree.
So are folks who are against incentives here also opposed to colleges who put performance conditions for keeping merit aid? Or is it bad only if parents do it? All the arguments made against parent incentives can be raised against college conditions for merit aid too right?
That is why it is commonly advised on these forums to be careful with colleges with high GPA thresholds to renew a merit scholarship that is essential to afford attending the college. Or get into desired majors.
@emilybee,I don’t understand your question. My kid did take a job 1000 miles from home (although it started a couple months after graduation). She had money in the bank. She also got some relocation paid for by her new employer. She made her own apartment deposit, plane reservation, etc. Oh, I did give her a $500 IKEA gift card for graduation, though.
@mamabear1234, my piggy did not choose her fate. Hopefully she will not be caged for long.
@inparent, I’m glad your kid has the money to be able to set herself up in city where her job is. Most kids don’t have that kind of money. Any money my kid earned during college went to paying for her books, gas, clothes, entertainment, etc. I don’t know too many kids who have a spare $8000 dollars burning a whole in their pocket. Heck, on another thread we learned that 47% of adults can’t even come up with $400 in an emergency!
And my son was pretty frugal and worked summers, breaks and had a job on campus.
In any event, I don’t believe in telling a kid they are cut off completely once the graduate. Stuff happens and it’s important to me that my kid knows if he ever needs us ( and that includes monetarily) we are there for him.
My kids also pay for their own spending money, books, and any expenses related to unpaid internships (which D1 had one summer). They worked before college and most summers, D1 worked during the school year, and they are pretty frugal. They had saved some during high school, too. Even without relocation help (which was $2000), I don’t see how it costs $8K to get a kid set up. My kid found an apartment with roommates, paid her security deposit and first month’s rent (another $2K). All in DC, which is pretty high cost. Not sure what the other $4K would be for. She had about $5K in the bank when she graduated, so she was covered.
We didn’t just kick her to the curb – but you don’t do your kids favors in the long run by continuing to bankroll them after they have their degree. Small stuff and short periods, sure. But 22 is time to grow up and take responsibility for yourself.
And that same kid – four years later has a six month emergency fund, gets her 401K match, and contributes to her Roth yearly. I am not sure she would be this far along if we hadn’t set the expectation when she went to college that she needed to be some kind of self supporting adult when she was done. She was a humanities major, too. But she hustled for internships, graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and built skills that helped in the job market. Incentives are good – but ours were broad, leaving it up to them on how to execute (grades, majors, etc).
@inparent, I outlined what we paid for in a previous post. 1st/last months rent at summer sublet because you can’t get a year lease in a afforable apt in Boston that doesn’t run from Sept/Sept because of all the students in Boston. Then 1st/last months rent in permanent apt, plus security deposit and half of a half of the finders fee ( sons company paid $1000 of it.) Then a new catalytic converter for his car so it could pass MA inspection and he could register it in MA. And very few auto insurers write in MA for some reason so, iirc, his car couldn’t stay on my insurance when he became a MA resident and car had to be registered in MA.
He shares a 2 bedroom with a roommate - his share is $1000. Not an unreasonable amount. His summer sublet was a bit more.
We could have asked him to pay us back but by not doing that he now has a healthy emergency fund and contributes the max he’s allowed to his 401k and he’s only been working 11 months. Plus he saved an additional $5k to put down on a new (pre-owned) car.
I don’t consider paying the upfront cost of moving to a new city as bankrolling my kid. I don’t think helping them get on their feet after graduation is enabling them or hinders their ability to become self sufficient. It’s being helpful and nice. I am glad we were able to do this for our kid and he was very appreciative. And I am glad we were able to pay for his college without him having to take out loans and so he doesn’t have that burden after he graduates.
"Pay your son to take out the trash – and you’ve pretty much guaranteed the kid will never do it again for free.”
-Daniel Pink
Weighing in really late…but wanted to say;
I think there is a difference between laying out what you will or won’t pay for vs. a “sliding scale” based on grades. We have talked to our kids about what we expect in college–(to see grades mainly in the A and B range, especially for gen-ed type classes that are not known for being “weed outs”)–and that we are not paying for them to go and party 24/7. However, we understand that some classes may throw them for a loop–or they may find out they are not cut out for the major they chose–and that is okay as long as the lines of communication stay open.
They also have taken out small loans each year. Explained to them that if they choose to party, not go to class, etc…not only will they be coming home–but they will still owe that money–with nothing to show for it. Not a bribe, just the way the world works.
The “sliding scale” to me, seems counterintuitive. As someone else mentioned, I would rather my kids took classes that challenge them (and get a B or C), than take the easy way out so they can maintain higher grades.
From post #12 (regarding hypothetical students refusing to transfer to a cheaper school when their parents tell them to):
Thank you for the best laugh I’ve had in ages!
For me, it’s not that incentives are bad. They may not be.
What’s important is to fully understand what the incentive rewards and what it discourages.
For example, colleges that put performance conditions on keeping merit aid are discouraging the recipients of that aid from majoring in engineering, where GPAs tend to run lower than in most other majors. If your kid is planning to major in engineering, and if the merit scholarship is essential for the kid to attend that school, the kid might need to think twice about going there. If your kid is planning to major in business or psychology or some other field where GPAs do not run unusually low, there is probably no problem.
It’s not that I agree or disagree with the ‘incentives’ the schools or scholarship put on renewing the funding- we don’t have a choice. Those are the requirements, to get a 2.0 or a 3.0. Actually, as a taxpayer funding some of those scholarships or loans, I do think there has to be some requirement that the student get at least a 2.0, at least make academic progress toward a degree. I don’t have a problem with parents also having the requirements of making progress and keeping grades up, and it doesn’t have to be a minimum of 2.0. I expect my kids to work in school, not play all the time. I have one who has to keep the gpa at 2.8 for her biggest merit reward and the school expects that and I do too. The punishment is not going to be that I pull her funding, but that the school does. I don’t have an extra $25000/year if that funding is pulled, so the question of whether I pull funding or make her borrow that amount is moot- I can’t pay! My other child has to keep a 3.0 to keep a very small merit award. I could threaten to pull her funding, but she already know the consequences of losing it. In fact she did lose it, went to FA, filed an appeal, and got it reinstated.
The OP asked about parental incentives. I guess I disagree with them for individual classes but if the student isn’t doing the work overall, a break from school is called for. I went to school with too many kids on the 6 year plan who would just drop classes if they fell behind, not do the work, had too many activities, changed majors. They had no pressure to plow through when the going got tough. My kids know that 6 years is not an option. One kid asked if she could take an online class from her college this summer. No, she can’t. Without FA, a class from her school would cost $5000.