<p>Wow. now dont tell me that the articles says teen drinking is BAD? Thats too shocking! Next, you’ll be saying that snorting coke and having premarital unprotected sex is bad too!</p>
<p>Honestly though, blah blah I’m sick of hearing this everywhere.</p>
<p>well while we haven’t been able to limit who has children
we do limit how they can raise them ( personally- ifI could think of a way to limit those who give birth and to how many I would )</p>
<p>fr instance a mother who wanted to try alternatives/ a 3rd ultrasound so that she would feel she had done all she could for her sons kidney ailment and seized him from the hosptial, was arrested and jailed.
<a href=“http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/14920100.htm[/url]”>http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/14920100.htm</a>
I think it is reasonable to have rules for society
I disagree with some of them-
I don’t think that a pharmacist should be able to deny legally prescribed medication to a patient
If you want to decide who gets what medicine, be a doctor, not someone who follows the doctors orders</p>
<p>If smoking wasn’t such big business in this country you can bet it would be illegal.
Some businesses have fired workers who smoke ( they do blood tests)
I have read too many articles about studies that indicate the extent of damage to developing brains to feel that we don’t have a responsibilty to try and prevent it</p>
<p>
Ah yes, the nanny government and holier-than-thou liberals know more about my body than I do.</p>
<p>^The above post is quite scary.</p>
<p>so since you apparently feel that regarding alcohol and its use there should be no regulations towards requiring those using it to be adults, not in the control of a vehicle, etc, I am wondering if you feel there should be any rules regarding alcohol at all, or if everclear should be sold in the supermarket next to bubbleup?
Perhaps in the spirit of indivdual choice we should be selling Heckler & Kochs in the glass case next to the cigars? ( appropriately taxed of course)</p>
<p>EK,
I am not sure what everclear is, or Heckler & Kochs, so I can’t answer your question directly. 
I am also not completely sure why you went straight from “selling alcohol to adults” to “no rules at all” ? I never meant to propose the latter. I simply don’t understand why everybody is considered legally to be an adult at the age 18 for all intents and purposes BUT buying alcohol.</p>
<p>PS I googled everclear( I honestly thought it was a band) and now think we were talking about different things. I have no problem with the WAY alcohol is sold in this country, I have nothing against liquor stores, the thing I was talking about is difference in legal AGE, nothing more.
PPS I googled Heckler and Koch also. It made even less sense, I am sorry to say.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m a liberal. I don’t see any evidence of whether the person you were responding to is a liberal. Don’t pin this on liberals. Nannies come from across the political spectrum.</p>
<p>Or is it possible that we’d all take better care of ourselves and act more responsibly if we were trusted to make our own decisions?</p>
<p>so instead of trying to cloud the issue with whether we are very good at taking responsiblity for our nutritional health or our childrens
I will restrict myself to again arguing that as we have found that alcohol use damages brains in subjects in their early 20s as compared to older adults, and as it would be unethical to give 18 year olds alcohol, scientists have extraploated from that data that 18 yr old ( and younger) brains are even more at risk.
<a href=“http://www.duke.edu/~amwhite/Adolescence/adolescent5.html[/url]”>http://www.duke.edu/~amwhite/Adolescence/adolescent5.html</a>
I doubt that the drinking age will ever be lowered, as 18 year old are still in our senior high schools, and communities will not want to increase opportunity for minors to obtain alcohol</p>
<p>EMK, Thanks for that link. I printed out entire article for my son–for 2 reasons: 1) obviously the effects of alcohol on the brain in attempt to keep him making good choices 2) great article on neural plasticity and its applications to a teenager’s life–neural plasticity is a topic he studied some this past year and showed great interest—so hoping this will all hit home.</p>
<p>Another thing I found interesting about the research is that teenagers/young adults do not have the coordination impairment at BAC levels that older adults will therefore they will continue to drink thinking that they are not impaired (even though cognitively they are).</p>
<p>Great article. Thanks.</p>
<p>youre welcome
here is a frontline link that may be interesting to your son
<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/[/url]”>http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/</a></p>
<p>as my kids have a genetic predisposistion to addiction ( their dads side) and to mental illness ( my side) I try and read about anything that will increase brain health and aware of what will decrease brain health.</p>
<p>Pruning seems to go on until mid 20s and since my kids are slightly behind in growth ( as evident in bone plates as well as their socioemotional maturity)they are also more impulsive than some ( which also goes with ADD)</p>
<p>I have seen adults who began using substances in high school seem to solidify in their maturity and thought patterns at the age they began the drug/alcohol use.
Teens are much more impulsive and I include 18 year olds, and to add substance use to the mix ( once alcohol is added, other substances also are often used), makes them even more at risk for hasty dangerous decisions.</p>
<p>I don’t speak lightly, not only did I have several friends who died in substance related incidents before they were 21, one of my best friends who was a generally very responsible soul, died in a boating accident when he was under the influence when he was 22.</p>
<p>I am sorry that our country has deemed it legal for 16 year old to volunteer to go to war, and I realize we allow 18 year olds to sign contracts and to vote and for 16 year olds to drive, although I am happy that in many jurisdictions they are putting more restrictions on them.</p>
<p>Just a week or so ago 3 seniors in high school were burned to death when their car failed to make a turn on a road I drive every day. THe fire was too intense to determine if substances were a factor, but I don’t think young adults need encouragement to make impulsive desicions, like to drive too fast.
Just a month ago, a 16 yr old girl who played soccer with my daughter, jumped to her death. Again, teens are very impulsive, alcohol only makes them more so, and although yes I am a liberal- I would rather err on the side of squashing their “rights”, if it means more children reach adulthood, with all their capabilities.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with a “nanny state”
I voted against laws banning any restaurants from allowing smoking, as I feel that it should be the choice of the business owner to offer a smoking area, and for the patrons to frequent it.
I do believe that the state could have very strict regulations towards ventilation and filtration of air in the smoking area, but that law passed anyway.
I also signed petitions against the City COuncils decision to heap rules on to “exotic” dancers.
REquired the clubs to have bright lights on- stay 4 feet away from patrons etc. really silly, plus who would ever go into strip club with bright lights, that would effectively kill their income.
I also would argue for the legalization of marijuana ( and regulation) for adults.</p>
<p>I do beleive in helmet laws as I feel that is a health issue. If someone is injured and has brain damage, the state is obligated to care for them
When I was 20, I worked in a nursing home that specialized in young adults who had been injured and several of them had been injured through their own actions under the influence of drugs or alcohol.</p>
<p>And yes I have heard the " but I am not like that " before
even here on CC where everyone appears to be above average .
It doesnt matter how smart you are, your frontal lobe is not mature when you are 18, period.</p>
<p>I always thought that being a minor has to do with age and not with being in or out of high school. My S turned 18 last September and immediately aquired the right to sign the legal documents without our co-signing. In my eyes THAT made him “of-age” even if he had almost a year of high school left. Actually my H said yesterday that he’d rather see lowering the drinking age and raising the driving age. THAT will never happen, but I can see his point. The thing is, kids( for lack of a better word) who want to drink now, find the way to do it. And they drink too much partly because it’s done in secret. They buy “wholsale” through “suppliers” and then feel obligated to consume what they bought. That is much more alarming for me than an 18 year old having a beer in a bar.
EK, I understand your concern, it has a lot to do with your family history. I just find “squashing” only one right inconsistent.</p>
<p>minor does have to do with age
however what I was saying is that because 18 year olds are in high school with 14 year olds, I don’t see society allowing them to have legal access to alcohol
( I realize it is contradictory, as is allowing tobacco companies to add all sorts of addictive substances to cigarettes, while they cost our tax payers millions in health costs, while marijuana is illegal in most areas, even when doctor prescribed)</p>
<p>I think 18 ( and 16) year olds should be able to go to clubs to hear music- right now there are few all ages shows and I really don’t think it is that difficult to restrict drinking to 21+ in the club.</p>
<p>I agree that if kids really want to use illegal substances they will find a way, but I don’t think they will do it less, if it is legal.
We already have stores that will sell alcohol to those who "could be"21, but area actually younger, if age was lowered to 18, how many stores will be selling to kids 16 and younger?</p>
<p>I realize that once college students are away at college they are pretty much unsupervised, and as they are adults, the parents who are liable for their support ( as colleges don’t consider them independent till 24), may never know about arrests for dui etc, unless student has signed a release form to notify parents.</p>
<p>Students in many states can already have alcohol in their home, and my father did in fact buy me ( and my friends) beer when I was in high school, but with the amazing reasoning power of an adolescent, I determined that since it was provided for me once, that meant that he was OK with it, elsewhere. ;)</p>
<p>"We already have stores that will sell alcohol to those who "could be"21, but area actually younger, if age was lowered to 18, how many stores will be selling to kids 16 and younger? " </p>
<p>The problem is, as my S explained it to me, kids don’t go to the stores to buy alcohol. They give money to an “of-age” person( S was very vague on the particulars, but I understand these may be the co-workers, older classmates in college, and so on) who buys BOXES of liquor with the money he is given . It’s not just a six-pack of beer, it’s bottles and bottles of gin, vodka, God knows what. 
That is scary.</p>
<p>some places are limiting how much is sold- It seems like I saw a sign at the liquor store by the local university, that there was a limit.
Of course at the grocery store that is right next to the liquor store, they have huge displays of beer.
In teh bars they often require each person to buy their own drink, but that is dependent on the bar ( I really don’t have that much experience & since my husband doesn’t drink- when I go to the bar I get a drink- a coffee and a bottle of water)</p>
<p>So I can see where you could reason that for 18 year old to go to a bar, they would be more closely monitored- theoretically.
From the few clubs I have been to lately, it seems that preloading ( drinking before they go out) is popular, as the alcohol hasn’t been processed by their kidneys yet, and they are let into the clubs since they seem relatively sober, but within an hour, they are falling all over the place & these are I assume at least 21 year olds.</p>
<p>Preloading is also popular on campuses,either for events that don’t serve liquor or for those who just want a head start.
This seems like a new thing to me.
I admit I used to go out drinking every weekend in high school, just about, sometimes both Friday and Saturday night, and this sort of thing continued for a couple years after high school.
But we had a drink before we went out, very , very rarely, and not to the extent that some kids seem to do now.
Puking, is just gross, and not a good time.
<a href=“http://www.vanderbilt.edu/alcohol/parents_highrisk.html[/url]”>http://www.vanderbilt.edu/alcohol/parents_highrisk.html</a></p>
<p>So do you guys wanna go drink after we’re done here??? We can…DRIVE.
tehehehe.</p>
<p>sorry I had my beer for the week while watching the Italy- Germany game
They weren’t doing coffee! ( the owner wanted to watch the game so I had to go across the street to Peets)
and they ran out of my favorite Moretti La Rossa, so all that was left was Dos Equis on tap.</p>
<p>We actually had some chianti while watching that game. Probably should have had some spaten, may be it would have helped the German team i was rooting for.</p>
<p>EMK, again thanks for the additional link. Son and I looked up some of the researchers quoted and ordered some of their books from Amazon.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That was not my point. My point was that in health and other terms, there’s a huge difference between a college student (or anyone else, for that matter) who pours herself a glass of wine or beer to relax while hanging out with a group of friends in the lounge after a long day, and one who ends up with a BAC of .20 three nights a week while party-hopping. And that I don’t believe that the former should be penalized because of the latter’s immaturity. Instead of laws and college regulations banning the under-21 crowd from drinking, colleges should have alcoholism screening and medical follow-up for students who drink themselves into the infirmary.</p>
<p>My other point was that in our society, when you’re a legal adult, you’re normally allowed to decide to do things that are bad for you. For reasons that have always escaped me, we make alcohol an exception to this general policy.</p>