Share your thoughts on statins

[Creekland]

To answer my own question now that I’ve had time to search more, no, apples don’t really help to that extent. Further research studies showed only modest lowering and one had to eat 2-3 per day to get that.

Makes sense. It should have made headlines and been top medical advice from physicians had the original results stood the test of repeat studies.

What boggles the mind is that people still write about it in 2018 (in a newspaper) without having done their own research. I know I shouldn’t, but I expect more of columnists - even for small papers.

I suppose I’m thankful I have a questioning nature considering I did eventually get a chance to look into it myself, but I wonder how many don’t? It was in a “healthy eating” section of a newspaper so… (sigh)

[emptynesteryet]

I have found that nothing makes perfect sense in one’s body.

You have people that live in their 90’s that smoke, drink, and eat processed foods daily which is crazy. Then you have extremely health conscious individuals die of cancer, stroke, or heart attack in their 30, 40, or 50s.

I still believe in most healthy keto or Mediterranean based diets with calories counted and blood work done to prove it is working. I don’t have much hope living past 65-70 genetics are a beast

None of us get out of here alive and that is okay

[Creekland]

@emptynesteryet Yeah, I’m going back to not worrying about it. It’s there. I eat mostly reasonably well and am tweaking toward better rather than not. I’m active. I’m not afraid of the next life. Que sera, sera.

[sabaray]

I happened across this piece on CNN this morning and thought it was interesting. Author is a cardiologist and founder of Step One Foods.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/08/health/cardiologist-statin-cholesterol-mission/index.html

Her mission?

High cholesterol? Here’s a pill. High blood pressure? Here’s two pills. High blood sugar? Here’s two pills and an injection. This is what many doctors routinely do without ever addressing why the cholesterol, blood pressure or blood sugar is abnormal in the first place.

I used to practice this way until I realized that all I was doing was covering up the downstream effects of poor diet with a bunch of drugs, instead of changing the food…So I became obsessed with finding a better solution and founded a company that formulates foods to help lower cholesterol, backed by pharmaceutical-level science.

Food based intervention is the route I tried first but accepted that I did need a statin in the end. I’m going to look into this company a bit and talk with my doctor at my next visit as I think it’s something he would be interested in.

[surfcity]

My doctor just mentioned supplementing with bergamot. Apparently there are some studies that show a decrease in cholesterol numbers after use.

[anomander]

@sabaray I also just saw that article and decided to order a couple items from the company. I did statins for a few years but ended up with shoulder problems as a result so very likely will not go back on them in the future. Hopefully the bars I ordered taste good and worst case can’t hurt anything other than my wallet.

[lookingforward]

“founded a company.” There’s your first hint.

Interesting here. https://www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/herbs/does-bergamot-lower-cholesterol/
I tend to trust Dr Weill- or maybe I mean learn from him. I doubt so many instant claims, one study, or not knowing the other reasons a count (or condition) may change.

Remember the news of a test that eating yogurt let people lose an average of 17 lbs? But that was a huge part of the diet and other foods were cut out.

[notrichenough]

A high dose of fish oil (6 gms of high-density omega 3, which is around 600mg O-3 per 1000mg of oil, or higher) drove my cholesterol down about 40 points.

It’s expensive though, at around 15-25 cents per cap, depending on what and were you get it, so around $1/day to supplement at that level.

You can get prescription fish oil, but depending on your health insurance it might not be cheaper than over the counter.

[lookingforward]

NRE, did you continue with fish oil, to keep the count down?

[ucbalumnus]

$1 will buy a can of sardines that give you fish oil, calcium, vitamin D, and protein.

[notrichenough]

Not at that dose, it pushed my cholesterol down to around 160, and my doctor felt there was no need for it to be that low.

I still do 4 gms/day and my cholesterol hovers around 200. I honestly don’t remember what it was before starting fish oil, and I take it more for joint/inflammatory issues, not for cholesterol control.

[notrichenough]

$1 will buy a can of sardines that give you fish oil, calcium, vitamin D, and protein.

There may (or may not, depending on where you look) be enough vitamin D in sardines to barely stave off rickets, but at the cost of having to, well, eat a can of sardines.

I would much rather swallow a 5 cent pill with a therapeutic amount of D3 like 5000 IU, that choke down a can of sardines every single day for a lousy 150-400 IU.

[sabaray]

“founded a company.” There’s your first hint.

Yes, that’s why I mentioned it right off the bat. I think it’s important to note that she stands to profit from her theory. And the studies were not large and have yet to be published. I follow Dr. Weil, more specifically his anti-inflammatory diet.

Consumers purchase all kinds of garbage food labeled as healthy. I try to avoid meal replacement bars, smoothies, etc. but there are times they are the healthiest option available. I agree with this 100%:

For example, a cereal might contain fiber – and boldly tout the ability of this nutrient to lower cholesterol – but the fine print reveals that a serving of the cereal also delivers the added sugar equivalent of three cookies. Any positive health effect of the fiber is completely negated. But how is the average consumer supposed to know this? They’re not. They’re just supposed to like the taste and feel good about buying that cereal. My patients may have been trying to “eat better,” but they were getting duped.

I’ll be curious to see what you think of the products, @anomander. Please report back!

[Creekland]

I saw that come up on my google feed while at school today. It looked intriguing, but unless I missed it there wasn’t really advice on what foods - just that she had started a company. I honestly don’t mind someone selling something good, but I find it preferable when they give advice and one can do it on their own OR buy for convenience.

My whole personality prefers working with diet and exercise over supplements or meds of any sort. This is only for maintaining health - don’t take it to think I align with anti-vax folks 'cause that’s definitely NOT true. H and I just updated our Tdap yesterday solely because we live on a farm… and will get an update on Hep A next week due to an upcoming trip, etc.

[surfcity]

Okay I thought that article was very interesting, especially the part where doctors get paid more for writing prescriptions than for discussing healthy lifestyles with patients.

I am dismayed that the writer’s products all seem like processed foods. Certainly she could give a list of the items to eat or add to one’s diet - I imagine it would be similar to current research: fresh vegetables, berries, whole grains, etc??

[ucbalumnus]

@Creekland

unless I missed it there wasn’t really advice on what foods - just that she had started a company. I honestly don’t mind someone selling something good, but I find it preferable when they give advice and one can do it on their own OR buy for convenience.

Perhaps a roundabout way of getting her advice without buying her company’s foods is to look at the ingredients lists of her company’s foods.

[SouthJerseyChessMom]

^ didn’t she mention blueberries, almonds, couple other items ?

[Creekland]

Yes, there were a few things mentioned, but not anything “new” or with stats showing how much to eat or how much they help. What’s different from a typical healthy diet? Berries, nuts, etc, are already part of that recommendation with several diet/health studies backing them up.

I saw the one apple study reported on in our newspaper. Other follow up studies didn’t have the same results when I dug deeper. What is she basing her claims on - just theory? Or anecdotal evidence?

I’m a science minded person. I love discussing theories. But I like to have evidence when adding specific things into my life - esp if I’m buying them from someone who is proposing the theories. I want that evidence to be able to be checked out independently too.

With statins, the evidence for my situation seems to be on the fence making it tougher for me to decide which way to proceed. My overall diet is usually healthy, and includes nuts and berries often daily. Tweaking it more is possible, but I’ll admit to enjoying some fun foods at time too. I’d possibly change, but I’d want to know it was worth it.

[c1k447]

If you do think about taking statins and are talking with your doctor about it, ask about other side effects like reduced CoQ10 levels in the body while taking statins. CoQ10 acts as an antioxidant and helps to produce energy, so you may want to keep this in mind.

[Creekland]

Updating this again because I have new numbers and it has me pleased with the way things are going - without statins.

Overall cholesterol only dropped two points (233/231), but HDL went up 10 (46/56). LDL dropped 14 (169/155). I’m guessing those numbers don’t exactly add up due to rounding?

I tried 20mg of Lipitor (generic equivalent) on and off, but dropped it entirely around Christmas due to the severe brain fog I mentioned earlier. That trade off simply wasn’t worth it to me. The on/off was trying to see if it really was the statin responsible. The jury is still out on that, but with decent numbers coming in now, I’m going to continue other things before the next blood tests (scheduled for Sept).

What I’ve added that seems to show good promise is ginger. Right now I just add it to tea, black in the morning and green in the afternoon. After consulting med school lad after he just learned more about it in class, I’m also planning to add a capsule or two of it per day, probably in the morning and evening. I still need to google a good source. I’ve purposely upped my nut intake - esp Brazil nuts, Cashews, and Almonds too - the Almonds being dark chocolate coated - cause I like them better that way.

I’ve been purposely getting more general activity/exercise - nothing heavy as I can’t do that for whatever radiation/brain reason, but walking isn’t a problem, so 10,000+ steps per day throughout the day vs all at once is typical with only really bad weather or travel messing with it.

I had worried that all our holiday eating would negatively affect numbers - we had so much ham from both sides of the family that I hardly want to see that meat again in a long time! Fixings came along with it. Unhealthy comfort foods were also in there quite a bit with all the family visits. I fully expected these numbers to be much worse, not better.

Now I want to see what 8 months of more typical (for me) life does - esp with added ginger. There’s still a bit to go.

As a side… I now have to figure out what to do with various Iron measurements. Fe is fine, though dropping, Transferrin is really good, but Fe Saturation and MCH are low seeming to mean I’m getting some sort of iron issue with the cells themselves. There’s always something with aging, no? It doesn’t seem to be affecting life at this point (not the least bit fatigued), so all is well. The rest of the numbers are all fine - other than still waiting on Ha1c.

As a second aside, I’ve always been slightly on the high (flagged high) side with bilirubin. Starting milk thistle from a reputable source have had the last two tests come in normal and getting better within normal respectively. A google search on that one (for my mom) showed it being tested at places like Mayo to improve liver function. I added it for myself because it was an inexpensive why not (mom added it too due to her cancer affecting her liver). I certainly can’t say it’s the reason my really consistent flagged high numbers suddenly got better (over time), but one has to wonder. I’m continuing with it. That’s just a FYI in case anyone else reading wants to consider a “being tested” potential help for liver function. A couple of data points just lend data - not conclusions for all.

The ginger option is one they just taught my med school lad as a “real” thing. Anyone not able to (or desiring to) take statins could look into it more themselves to make their own decision. Med school lad cautions finding a good source. Apparently not everything labeled ginger really is.