<p>You might do better (and with more precision) by counting the sons and daughters of CURRENT CEOs.</p>
<p>Say, mini, in post #211, were you subtly suggesting that I might be from Podunk? I am from Podunk Heights!</p>
<p>You make an interesting point about the differences for an applicant from a school where the GC’s have already established connections with the admissions offices at “top” colleges, vs. those from the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>Adcoms at prestige institutions are, like those at others, not admitting individuals, but building a class to conform to the school’s institutional missions. And that mission extends over years. For prestige institutions, denying admission can be as important as admitting an applicant in building a long-term reputation. And a corollary may be that in taking a somewhat less “desirable” (note I didn’t say “unqualified” because, by definition, they are “qualified” if accepted) applicant, they may gain access to more desirable ones in the future. </p>
<p>There really is not a lot of upside in accepting the usual, run-of-the-mill “brilliant” applicant from Podunk High unless s/he has something special or unique to offer in building the class. And the reality is that applicant may be better off at the state honors college anyway (especially if they are in something like pre-med), where s/he will receive more special attention, and likely better opportunities than if s/he is a middle-of-the-pack student at Prestige U. </p>
<p>(and when it comes to “overcoming adversity”, the adcoms have heard it all, so if that is the approach, it better be better than darn good.)</p>
<p>So, are the AdComs seeing what is below the surface or the community surrounding the applicant for X years…
Is the File a product of soul or brilliant marketing?</p>
<p>Let’s call a spade a spade. It is what is it is. But it aint pure merit OR pure BS. </p>
<p>I personally do not worship at the altar of AdComs. No DIS respect, but I feel they are humans. As well trained and experienced as they are (and certainly more so than I am.) They do have tough decisions to make and they are FREE to do what they wish.</p>
<p>Of course we on the outside do not see the entire file, but geesh, isn’t the File supposed to represent the applicant??? It would feel a little strange if I learned that a File contained all sorts of things that no one knew about a kid for 5, 10, 12 years…</p>
<p>usually sons and daughters of current CEOs disappear from picture altogether.</p>
<p>Do you know where Hewlett and Packard’s kids are or Warren Buffett’s?</p>
<p>Sam Walton’s kids inherited 20 billion apiece but I don’t believe any were at Harvard.</p>
<p>I don’t believe Zuckermann’s family was considered affluent if he had to borrow money from his roommate. Bill Gate’s family was well off but he did nt inherit his wealth.</p>
<p>Both of google’s founders came from a middle class background (yeah I know they did nt go to harvard).</p>
<p>Adcoms do the job they are required to do, or they are fired. They admit a class that best reflects the school’s institutional mission, they operate within a overall financial aid budget, they deal with the many pressures from the development office, the basketball team, the orchestra conductor, and the Classics Department. They do what they need to do each year, and move on.</p>
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If you mean Mark Zuckerberg his mom was a psychiatrist and his dad was a dentist. I think he went to Exeter. So they might not have been billionaires but I doubt they were hurting.</p>
<p>If you mean Mort Zuckerman, he’s a billionaire, but I don’t know about his parents or school. I coudl Google it but I’m not that interested :)</p>
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<p>If you did not have the opportunity to do so, I would recommend that you read the Overachievers, by Robbins</p>
<p>From p. 202</p>
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<p>frazzled1:
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<p>Yes, frazzled, but it’s more than that. Johnny’s not evaluated only qua Johnny. Harvard may have received 10 fantastic applications this year from Johnny’s region, reflecting very similar achievements, e.c.'s, and even some personality characteristics similar to Johnny’s. Johnny would be their 11th, and they don’t need a saturation. Further, of the 10, at least 2 of those fit the institutional need of outreach to the outstanding but economically underprivileged student (I’m not referring to AA here), something Harvard has recently targeted as a greater institutional focus. But Swarthmore and Stanford, both, don’t happen to have received an application quite like his this year, and have not prioritized economic status as much as H has. He gets offers from both of them, none from Harvard.</p>
<p>mini
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<p>[underline mine]</p>
<p>And for those of you who are convinced that admissions officers are incompetent, consider mini’s comment:
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<p>As to PEA, it does have a huge endowment which is used to fund financial aid and allow for diversity and opportunities for the less well off to avail themselves of what PEA has to offer. It is not unlike what we see at the colleges. Meaning you cannot be sure that MZ was not on FA there. There is an active thread at the moment on the Prep School Forum here on just this subject- the numbers are pretty amazing.</p>
<p>Also, PEA is full of really smart kids (it is actually really hard to get to Harvard from there/to be at the top of the class or outstanding in that pool) and the education is superb, and also very competitive. PEA does not have a patent on such at all, but I submit that a HS education at schools like PEA includes at least one year of school at many colleges; i.e. he was not unprepared. Clearly, MZ was ready to go out on his own, start something, and he used Harvard’s “resources” in “very interesting” ways!!!</p>
<p>About 5 years ago, I did ask in a group setting the Head of Admissions of one of the Ivies (who at that time was begging people to reconsider applying!) whether there had ever been any back-testing studies done on the success/experience of the students at the college and after college using the carefully explained criteria for admission (yes, we all know what they are) described at this meeting. He stuttered a bit and said he was not aware of any such research.</p>
<p>These admissions systems are in existence for many reasons. But are there any studies out there supporting them, say to show that they make sense in creating diversity, or successful students, or generous alums, or X, or Y…? The “results” seem to be self-explanatory enough and satisfying enough for the colleges today. But questions still remain!</p>
<p>I think the literacy level of the family of the applicant matters hugely. By this I don’t mean that mom and dad went to college, can read well and dutifully took the kiddie to the library and Borders. I mean that the home is awash in books, journals, newspapers . . . everything from the funnies to Faulkner to Time on the floors, couches, breakfast table, bathroom, etc. </p>
<p>The SAT expanded to three sections and became 2/3 verbal. Then there’s the common app and supplements – writing and more writing. I’m not talking about the kid who loves to read. There are so many of those. Every parent with a kid on honor roll will gush about their big reader kid. I mean the type of family that just reads all the time. My husband reads while he shaves. Reads while he puts gas in the car. Reads while he eats. Reads while he talks to me. Reads, reads, reads. I’m pretty compulsive about it, too, And our kids grew up in that environment and are extremely verbal. </p>
<p>I think the fluency and grace of the application essays is driven by that in large part. And the knowledge base, as well, which will come through on teacher recs. </p>
<p>I think the literacy angle is often missed by many families that are very EC oriented. Super busy. High achieving but pretty much too busy to let their kids just sit and read and ponder and noodle.</p>
<p>This is probably not at all relevant for the tech schools like MIT. But I think it comes into play for the Ivy schools and other selectives.</p>
<p>One other thing – if the parent or the kid tells you that the kid is a great writer and huge reader, they invariably are not that at all. The kind of literacy I’m trying to convey fosters generally a very deep humility about one’s writing and about all that’s still left out in the great world of literature to be read. It’s another element that come thru on the application, imo. There is the understanding that just a high gpa and test scores does not at all mean you’re a real scholar. Intellectual humility.</p>
<p>“Further, of the 10, at least 2 of those fit the institutional need of outreach to the outstanding but economically underprivileged student (I’m not referring to AA here), something Harvard has recently targeted as a greater institutional focus.”</p>
<p>(Well, almost. H. has only 6% Pell Grantees, the lowest percentage of any prestige college - both Stanford and Swarthmore are well above that. But your general point is well-taken.)</p>
<p>"I think the fluency and grace of the application essays is driven by that in large part. And the knowledge base, as well, which will come through on teacher recs."sewhappy</p>
<p>I’ve talked to too many parents and students at elite schools who blatantly have told me that the parent has written the childs’ application essays.</p>
<p>If I know this, the adcom’s must.</p>
<p>Therefore, I have concluded the application essay is worth little.</p>
<p>p1986- HUH?!
DO the AdComs know this? If so, why do they even bother asking for an essay?
What about the GC’s and College Counselors??</p>
<p>This is a pretty inflammatory statement.
And the kind that invites the slippery slope of “well, everyone else is doing it…” and “this whole process is BS, so I might as well fabricate other stuff on the application…”</p>
<p>Bovertine - Sorry, I did mean Zuckerberg. I see his parents were not CEOs!</p>
<p>Is Pell Grant pegged at 40k? HYPS seems to fund anyone making under 60k fully. So is it that the 20k difference in income improves their academic performance enough to get them noticed?</p>
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<p>Don’t think it. Know it. 
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<p>Also true. (And as did mine, and as I did in my own youth, with my mother’s literary obsession being legendary for the neighborhood, and our home looking very much like an annex of a small college library. It was often difficult to cook, given the literary anthologies being physically on top of the cutting boards in the kitchen. Not to mention the hard-back cultural magazines such as Horizon, carefully not in the kitchen.)</p>
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<p>Totally. And I personally know it comes through in teacher recs. That’s not a guess. </p>
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<p>Well, it’s missed by a lot, but not by those who understand how this works. And some students are quick enough to be have enough time to ponder, regardless of very high EC accomplishment.</p>
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<p>It is absolutely true.</p>
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<p>Definitely… which is why those of us who have spent actual time on elite college campuses have observed that quality of humility that is a byproduct of that awe, and which often translates on a personal level as well.</p>
<p>Parent1986: I think you are most likely correct that the Adcomms can tell when a parent wrote the essay. That doesn’t mean that all essays are worth little, however. I would think that the essay obviously written by a parent is worthless, but an interesting article abviously written by the student is worth a great deal.</p>
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<p>You could not be more wrong. The authentic adolescent voice is virtually impossible to duplicate by an adult. That moment in time has come and gone for the parent. Anyone well trained in education, from K through college, understands the developmental perspective and is in touch with it. The adult-polished essay is transparent, and is rejected out of hand. </p>
<p>The essay means a ton, but again – not at all in the way or for the reasons that many CC parents assume.</p>
<p>Just a quick Q about the “bathed in Literacy” argument, I do have a sense that there are kids in underprivileged homes (not just SES, but a paucity of literacy, in a whirl of TV, busy EC’s, etc.) who do TRY to read a lot more than their parents, sibs, peers… but may not be in a Bath of Books, per se.</p>
<p>My personal bias would be to the articulate reader/writer applicant, and I see that a well-read excellent writer who reflects and is modest is likely to write a very compelling essay, but is that really fair?? Is that in keeping with the goals of diversity so shouted out by the elites??? I mean, not everyone has the luxury of the time and resources to read read read. And there are other kinds of literacy: how to write elegant software code, or design beautiful buildings, or compose music, or construct an elegant proof…</p>
<p>mini, in #226, suggested that “Adcoms do the job they are required to do, or they are fired.” Probably true as far as it goes. But if the budget is balanced, the class has a reasonable size and composition, and the special needs of coaches are met, the job is pretty much done. At the top schools, I think that the faculty probably pay somewhat less attention to the quality of the undergrads and the admissions rationale than you might guess. To quote a collaborator of mine: “Undergraduates? What are those?” They are more concerned about the quality of the grad students and post docs, who have a much greater impact on their research, and about the quality of their young colleagues, who have a much greater impact on their institutional reputation, and hence indirectly on their research.</p>
<p>Also, should add: To say that some of the admissions committees are doing sub-optimal jobs is not the same as saying that they are incompetent fools. I am arguing the former, not the latter.</p>