<p>“Packaging” or marketing the applicant may be more of a factor at highly selective schools which get multiples of their freshman class size applicants whose academic credentials are compressed at the very top of the scale.</p>
<p>For moderately selective schools, the differentiation between applicants that is possible using typical academic credentials like high school grades and test scores is more usable than it is when almost every applicant has high school grades and test scores at the very top of the scale.</p>
<p>The math on the SAT-R math section and the SAT-S Math Level I test is not particularly advanced, even by normal (non-elite) high school standards. So a student scoring 700+ on these tests may still struggle with “calculus for social studies and business majors” or even precalculus.</p>
<p>I think the complaint wasn;t that they didn’t know it (after all, that’s what college is for), but they weren’t even learning (or willing to learn) it.</p>
<p>Doing well up to high school algebra 2 level math may be a necessary to be able to learn more advanced math, but is not sufficient – some students who did well in that level math struggle in more advanced math.</p>
<p>Also, some students do not like math, but learn the easier lower levels well enough. They may not be as willing to learn the more advanced math that one may see in university (even the less rigorous “calculus for social studies and business majors”). In high school, they may not realize what math may be needed for some social studies majors.</p>
<p>I should’ve added that some people were fooled into failed marriages by the “makeups” and some colleges got fooled by the “packaging” or “marketing”.</p>
<p>sewhappy
gawd this thing moves fast.
I wanted to say
“Intellectual humility” bit was really what it is. I am nowhere in your class but I totally get it.
off topic but your H’s letter to Steve Jobs must have been something.
I could believe that he might have read and written that reply himself.
He did look at me like I am a human being and talked to me at Mac expo. He did have that humility thing going on parallel with showmanship. (OK, back then)</p>
<p>now I understand why some people have to push your buttons.
and
why you won’t give a damn.
I’ve learned that it’s just not worth it.
that’s the way to go. cheers</p>
<p>I have a friend who bragged that she and her s’s friend wrote his essay and did the project for a specific scholarship (“oh he was too busy”) and then had the gaul to call the school when he hadn’t heard about his school acceptance to see if he was admitted and to see if he was still was in the running for the big scholarship that she blatantly cheated on. Unbelievable.</p>
<p>He was accepted to the school but did not get the big separate scholarship. Whats worse, it is the scholarship my son has, at that school, and she didn’t seem to understand why I took offense at her so blatantly cheating on the application AND bragging to me about it.
She complained to the school that they lost something in her s’s application (it may have been her s’s hs that messed up) and her s didn’t follow up to be sure everything was complete (remember- he was “too busy”) so she raised cane with the college when he didn’t hear about his admission before the scholarship was announced.</p>
<p>Could I go back a page and ask cartera45 (post #277) what was meant by the claim that intellectual humility was lacking on this thread?</p>
<p>We live in Podunk Heights, but I don’t spend my intellectual life there. I claimed to be able to recognize brilliance when I see it. I stand by that, although I suppose that I should limit the fields of the claim to math and science.</p>
<p>Still, a bit more broadly, to give an example: If you read mini’s thread about his intensive study of Tamil, his intellectual engagement is obvious (and in an interesting combination with a commitment to social justice). Fascinating thread. That’s what Chicago is promising its students–it’s a little disheartening to hear that mini’s students there weren’t ready for it.</p>
In general, IMAO (in my intellectually arrogant opinion):</p>
<p>Intellectually humble internet message board post = oxymoron.</p>
<p>That’s true here, on the Harley Davidson message board, and on the “I enjoy sniffing glue” message board.</p>
<p>Most people, with rare exception, think their ideas (at least the ideas they post to a message board) are superior to the other ideas posted. I would hope so, or why bother posting them at all. </p>
<p>I’m as guilty as the next person and readily admit it. THere are a lot of smart people on here with a lot of smart ideas, who attended a lot of fancy-pants schools. But only a handful I think are smarter than I am, and even then I won’t say who they are. Most of them are kids anyway.</p>
<p>Late 60s and early 70s was a bad time for students. They had too many worries (Vietnam, draft, that summer of love thing, existential angst). So I would nt be surprised if they were not paying attention in school.</p>
<p>I once observed, in disbelief, a parent dictate an elementary school paper for her S. Hope that is not still going on, as her S is in HS now. My S would not even accept an idea, if I were to propose one, in elementary school, as he would say, “This is my project.” Even if I wanted to help with essay, or anything, which I do not, he would never allow it.</p>
<p>We have that issues here-- my s won’t even let us read his resume. He said he’ll work with the college career/job placement office if he wants help.</p>
<p>All the voices of “one who knows” do start to overwhelm on cc and then it’s time to back away and ask what dark need drives one to waste time here. I guess better to smart off here and make a fool of oneself than irl.</p>
<p>I’ve decided that I will be cautious of two traits going forward. The first is anyone with a striking level of certitude about anything. I don’t trust certitude. The second is anyone who argues their point by calling the person or the ideas of the person they are arguing with dumb. Often these two traits go together. </p>
<p>Regarding the whole question of parents or hired guns writing kids’ essays for college . . . we went to a dinner party last night and a lady asked my daughter about her college plans and my daughter mentioned she was working on her essays and the lady asked why she wasn’t just having her consultant write the essays. It was surreal. It really happened. I’m pretty profoundly disillusioned by this. It makes me go back to questioning the whole value of elite education and feeling very conflicted about having another kid enter the fray.</p>
<p>xiggi - your endorsement of hiring the consultants blows my mind. It sounds like you are in that line of work. I be you’re good at it but I really hope it isn’t the case.</p>
<p>If I had the juice in me to go try and write my kid’s essays maybe I would. I don’t have that kind of energy or ambition for my kids. </p>
<p>jym - your bitterness over the mom “cheating” for the big scholarship just seems a little over-the-top. I don’t know that it’s really cheating. It’s just kind of sad and disillusioning.</p>
sewhappy - on another thread didn’t you ask xiggi if he was a paid admissions consultant? And didn’t he say no? Did you forget? Or are you accusing him of lying? Frankly, I think implying someone is a liar is just as bad (or worse) than calling their ideas stupid.</p>
<p>With all due respect, sewhappy, perhaps you can take your conversation with one single poster back channel as it is seriously off topic here. As for your misperception - what I feel is severe disappointment with someone who cheats and then brags about it. And then pushed the school to see if her kid will get a scholarship he didnt apply for. There are ethics, and morals at play here. Sorry if you cant see that.</p>
<p>I once struck up a conversation with a complete stranger in a doctor’s waiting room who told me that when her now-doctor-husband was applying to med school, she wrote all of his med school application essays for him because she was an English major. That made me really nervous. Ghost-written college app essays don’t upset me too much. There is no reason for any college to assume that any part of an app was actually written by a student.</p>
<p>I dont believe xiggi does individual student consulting since he has nt offered his services to me yet! </p>
<p>The standard view people take is - if you got money and you want to get your kid into that special college, what is wrong in making sure it happens. You can see that view coming across from several people on this thread although it is not openly stated. Whether consultants actually write those essays is another matter but it is nt too far fetched if you are paying someone 40-50k to help your kid.</p>
<p>If that does nt work, you can always pay for that new wing in that school.</p>