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<p>Chuckled when I read this, but it’s probably true. If the lifetime goal was to get into one of the top ivies, then this kind of thinking/planning might well be necessary.</p>
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<p>That sounds like the college has succeeded in filling itself with exceptional students, with or without the “howls of incredulous laughter” over the mention of merit and excellence supposed by Steele in the OP quote.</p>
<p>And therein may lie Steele’s mistake. Intrinsic to an understanding of American exceptionalism is that America found and continues to find the exceptional in more of its population than other countries often do. And elite colleges find themselves in the delightful position of finding more than enough exceptional students to fill their seats, regardless of differing with some, including Steele, about the best ways of finding them.</p>
<p>Yes, Bay,family member starting now at an Ivy is white, upper middle class but also a D1 athlete as well as legacy so has 2 of the three you mention.</p>
<p>MommaJ, thanks for the quote out of context. You clearly missed every comment about how hard he worked for it and what ha achieved. Sense of entitlement came from working hard to achieve a 4.5 GPA, 2380 SAT, 800 Subject Matters tests, and complete involvement in extracurriuclar activities.</p>
<p>Not because of anything else. If you want to completely re-spin working hard and being completely dedicated to one’s studies, school and community in order to achieve a desired outcome a “sense of entitlement” --then have at it. </p>
<p>No one expected to be handed anything. He worked damn hard, harder than almost everyone. And clearly he acheived more than others who DID get it.</p>
<p>Entitlement? No. But a life lesson? You bet.</p>
<p>And again–he’s happy at Pomona. I’m happy with Pomona. But lets be honest–Ivy League is preferable. Or else we wouldn’t be talking about it, would we?</p>
<p>Bay</p>
<p>In the upper middle class white area where I live, it is common knowledge that the only upper middle class white kids who get into HYPS are:</p>
<p>1) Tippy-top students who are Division 1 athletes;
2) Tippy-top students who are legacies; and
3) Tippy-top student who score 2400 (we had one of those).</p>
<p>What about (upper) middle class Asian kids?
Do you know how they into HYPS? I know 2400 on SAT does not work.</p>
<p>
PizzaGirl -
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here - that nobody is entitled, and that the notion of “targeting a top Ivy” is shallow compared to finding a great top school. But I think you’re missing the main point, which is the human element in this story.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, the goal for this family was the highly prestigious HYPS (as it is for many here), and the kid saw less meritorious classmates win the prize for reasons that seem weak - legacy, wealth and race. That’s a tough thing for a young person to experience (although it’s a great introduction to the unfairness of life).</p>
<p>Thank you Mister K. EXACTLY my point.</p>
<p>
Although I’m not sure about their socioeconomic status, it also apparently didn’t work for LoremIpsum’s kid, who is white, and Silverturtle, who is part Hispanic. And they also got 36s on the ACT, all single sitting I believe. Of course, they did get into a couple of Ivy League schools each, and several other great schools.</p>
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<p>All of the Asian kids from our h.s. also got in as Div. 1 athletes (I can think of 4 to H, 2 to P, and there are probably more I am not remembering). I do not know their SAT scores or legacy status.</p>
<p>At my D’s school, three '11 boys were admitted to the same HYPSM. One, African American, was EA, the other two, one UMC white, one Asian, were RA. </p>
<p>So the buzz among some parents after the first admission was “Well, we all know why HE got in.”</p>
<p>Turns out he also had the highest ACT of the three - not to mention (IMO) by far the most impressive resume. But of course, none of those facts stopped the talk, even though they are generally known. </p>
<p>I do feel sorry for the kids whose parents consider them failures because they didn’t get into their parents’ dream schools.</p>
<p>Also, I was not saying that a 2400 or legacy status <em>will</em> get you in, I’m just saying the ones who got in did have those or athletics going for them in addition to top academic standing.</p>
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</p>
<p>But the reason he saw it as unfair and disappointing is because he was taught wrong. He should have known from the start that HYPS are not just looking for the top students.</p>
<p>Or that HYPS define “top student” differently than stats- and multiple-EC-obsessed parents.</p>
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</p>
<p>Maybe for striver wannabes who define the world as only those 8 schools, sure. In the real world? No, I see little evidence that attending an Ivy League school catapults someone oh-so-very-much-farther-in-life than a similarly situated elite LAC or university, because all of those places offer *more opportunities than any one student could ever taken advantage of.<a href=“And%20now,%20cue%20the%20legions%20of%20investment%20bankers%20to%20inform%20me%20that%20Goldman%20Sachs%20only%20takes%20people%20from%20wherever.%20%20So%20what,%20who%20cares.”>/i</a> </p>
<p>Look, let’s face it. The vast majority of people attending Ivies or other top schools aren’t going to become Supreme Court justices, start the next Facebook, whatever. They are going to have good jobs and lead perfectly respectable and satisfying upper middle class lives. They aren’t immune to having bad things happen in their lives, and they aren’t touched with some kind of magic dust. Why you would think it makes one damn bit of difference that it’s Brown over Vanderbilt, or Dartmouth over Pomona, is beyond me.</p>
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<p>Not everyone believes that the Ivy League is preferable. Many do, but more students decide to not apply. Many would give the right pinkie for an admission at HYPS, but others might actually prefer Pomona over HYPS. Without going into details, your son might share a meal in Claremont with a freshman who decided on Pomona despite costing a small fortune MORE than at Yale. </p>
<p>Obviously, if your son and your family believed that the best fit would have been at HYPS or at Brown, it is understandable to be majorly disappointed. Nothing anyone in this forum could say will lessen the sting of the few rejections … not even pointing to the amazing number of admissions at superlative schools. </p>
<p>Considering how much your son has achieved in K-12, I believe you will soon forget the small perceived “handicap” of having “missed” out on the HYPS rat race. Again, many do not feel the need to even apply, and end up with a remarkable experience and a clear path to graduate studies to the same schools you focused on.</p>
<p>Bay, you are right. He was taught wrong. I taught him to set high goals and work his ass off to get there. Silly, huh?</p>
<p>And you are right about athletics too. That too is a ticket and can be part of the game. But alas, that was a card he didn’t get dealt. Sorry, he just ISNT an athlete of note. Just doesnt have it in him. It is what it is. But 4 years of 2 sports shows that it wasn’t for lack playing the game and being sportsman like about it in the process too.</p>
<p>And no HPY isn’t for everyone and isn’t preferable for everyone. But it was for my son. That was my point on that statement–sorry that wasn’t clear.</p>
<p>I knew I’d probably regret entering into this thread. Because we are all talking about our darlings, right, hard to be dispassionate on that.</p>
<p>PS–I wouldnt have raised him any differently. ;-)</p>
<p>ProudMom,
Come on, you didn’t teach him wrong about the importance of academic achievement, you taught him wrong to expect to get into HYPS.</p>
<p>
That seems like flawed logic. It’s certainly possible to fully understand that HYPS aren’t just looking for top students, and to also see that as unfair, and to be disappointed if you’re the individual who loses to less meritorious candidates.</p>
<p>not to mention wrong about the importance of getting into HYPS</p>
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</p>
<p>No it is not. Not if you are taught that HYPS admissions are selective, not competitive, and that they are looking to build a class that includes racial diversity and first generation students, as well as a myriad of other types.</p>