<p>xiggi, I think the utopian ideal is that everybody should build their lists from the bottom up, be satisfied with what they get, etc. The reality is that a lot of the kids we are talking about are highly motivated and competitive, and really want to go to school with other kids who are like that. I certainly think that they should all broaden their horizons (and not think of “settling” for Duke, certainly). But there are plenty of kids who can reasonably hope to gain admission to one of, say, 20 to 40 schools at the upper end of the selectivity curve.</p>
<p>And I’ve always wanted to ask you: what’s with the ellipses? Are you leaving out cusswords, or indicated where you would pause in speech?</p>
Will you consider the possibility that I’m not doing that, if I consider the possibility that you’re not subtly conveying a defeatist attitude to your kids?</p>
<p>Sorry for the serial posts, but here’s an analogy. Your kid is a soccer player, and a talented one. She wants to try out for one of the highly competitive club soccer teams in your town. There are five of them, in a fairly well-known order of quality of play. You think–maybe–she’s got the stuff to make the top team, and as an aggressively competitive kid, that’s the one she would like to make. She tries out for all five teams and in alternate scenarios:
a. Gets into the second choice.
b. Gets into the fifth choice.
c. Gets into none of them, and has to play rec soccer or not play.</p>
<p>Assuming that you don’t think there was any cheating or overt unfairness in the selection process, what emotions is it OK to have in these situations? Which ones are OK to exhibit to your child?</p>
<p>Although they didn’t have to attend their safeties, the substantial merit money those offers came with certainly sweetened any reaction we might have had if that had been where they needed to go. My younger son loved his safety and would have been happy to attend it, but his reaches really were reaches. My older son was one of those kids for whom HYPSMC were matches if only they didn’t have such ridiculous acceptance rates. I think that’s when it is easy to fall into the trap that you somehow deserve to get into one of them. And after years and years of complaining that school was too easy, I did feel strongly that he needed to go somewhere he would be challenged at last. He didn’t get into some of the schools I’d hoped he would, but he ended up at a top school for his specialty (computer science) and was challenged to his hearts content. Amusingly at the opening welcome the Dean asked how many kids there had been rejected by MIT and I think 90% of the audience raised their hands.</p>
This is true. I will say that I don’t think it’s a tragedy when one of those kids ends up at Rice, or Emory. But I do think it’s too bad if a kid like that ends up at the state flagship that he didn’t really want to attend–which, in my opinion, usually happens as a result of a bad list more than bad results.</p>
<p>Sure, but at one point selective is selective. It is still silly, IMO, to divide places with acceptance rates of, say, < 25% into super-selective, super-duper-selective, and super-de-duper selective. They are all reaches for anybody, so what’s hte point?</p>
<p>Similarly, PCCBD and HYP are all outstanding universities that anyone would be proud to attend / have their child attend, so it’s silly to divide them into “lower Ivies” and “upper Ivies.”</p>
<p>What part of “it’s all good and you’re splitting hairs” is difficult to understand? Is there seriously someone in the US who actually thinks that there are meaningful, sustained, life-changing differences in the opportunities between those who go to HYPSM / the Ivies and those who go to similarly situated and ranked universities? I mean, such people have excuses if they’ve just arrived in this country - but otherwise, you just have to laugh at such foolishness.</p>
Pizzagirl, it’s this part that’s a little difficult to understand. If somebody has a pretty good reason to want to go to Princeton, it’s not “all good” to him if he doesn’t get in, even if he gets in to a really great school. Sure, it’s not as bad as being mugged, but why isn’t he allowed to be disappointed?</p>
<p>You go, xiggi.<br>
Where does this notion that HYPSM are so much more exalted than other similar schools come from anyway? I mean, who with any ounce of sophistication or knowledge of the real world buys into it?</p>
Could it be that some people just like one or more of those schools a lot? Would you have the same reaction to a kid who really wanted to go to, say, Notre Dame and didn’t get in?</p>
<p>Is this a serious question? I know some seriously rich parents who are thrilled their S is going to U of Arizona! I also know some semi-rich parents from the top local private hs who are thrilled their S is going to C of C! I know this must be shocking to some people.</p>
<p>He’s “allowed” to be disappointed, of course, and lick his wounds. But if he got into other great schools, isn’t the parental message to send him that - hey, you still did fabulously, look at the wonderful time you’re going to have at Emory / Rice / Carnegie-Mellon / whatever?</p>
<p>Look, you have 2 choices when your kid faces that disappointment. One is to bemoan that the thing is unfair, you’ve dreamed of the kid attending Princeton ever since he dirtied his diaper, and isn’t this awful, and all the neighbors are going to have to commiserate over glances of wine. The other is to say brightly, “I know you worked hard, and you put forth your best effort. But the fact that you were even a credible applicant to Princeton is an achievement in itself. And look all the cool things about Emory / Rice / Carnegie-Mellon / whatever!” And go buy a couple school t-shirts, and even dorky “parent of …” if necessary, and go and CELEBRATE the great fortune you have, to live in America and have a kid going to a top school. That’s the difference, to me. </p>
<p>Do you get knocked down and get up again, or do you lie on the floor bemoaning how awful life is when in the grand scheme of things, you still have it pretty sweet?</p>
<p>And really, texaspg, I know you think that by “attacking” NU or its students, you’re “attacking” me, but it really just reflects on you. Not me at all.</p>
<p>“And getting back to NU - for the sake of my son and his new classmates, I hope such an entitled kid chose the other non-Ivy top 20, because I would prefer my son be surrounded with kids who are eager and enthused about the great opportunities in front of them, not idolizing colleges-not-gotten-into as though there is any meaningful difference.” </p>
<p>I am not attacking NU or its students. I am pointing out that unlike your son who applied ED, not everyone got to NU as their one and only choice. Unlike you, I am not here to malign people and call them names. It does p&S& me off to a great extent that you would stoop to calling people whiny losers. Why do you use such distasteful words? We are here to discuss actual examples of people who react in a specific way about certain outcomes. That does nt give you the right to label my friends or their kids because I talked about some specifics. Call them irrational, I accept, whiny losers, no way.</p>
<p>Bay, I am not shocked at all. I am in Virginia and MANY kids WANT to go to UVa, William and Mary or Virginia Tech . My kids went to public schools but lots of the private school families hope for a leg up in admissions.</p>
<p>Never once did I conceive of your remark to reflect on YOU personally. Never once did my reply which you quoted reference you personally as a parent. Again, why do so many people on this board personalize general conversation about issues, not individuals (and then accuse discussion responders of nasty thoughts)? The word “parents,” Hunt, refers to the universe of parents, not to a particular parent on this thread.</p>
<p>I think there is a difference between saying, “I really liked / loved Princeton, had my hopes set on it and was disappointed (even devastated) when I didn’t get in” (but got into Emory / Rice / whatever) and “What devastates me about not getting into Princeton is that I simply won’t have the life opportunities at Emory / Rice / whatever that only Princetonians have, and I’ll basically never recover from it.” One is completely understandable - hey, buy that kid some ice cream and give him a big hug. The second? Not understandable at all. It’s just not true, at all. Why some people on this thread seem to treat certain schools as guaranteers of life success is truly beyond me.</p>
<p>Why, is it more of a crime when a private school / well-off student doesn’t get into HYPSM than when a public school student doesn’t? The least HYPSM can do, I suppose, is make sure no private school children are ever disappointed. Or well-to-do ones, either. Or perhaps they can add some factor of “Social Status Decline Among Peer Group if Not Admitted” and take that into consideration too.</p>
<p>Oh, Hunt, I could say that if there was any doubt that my posts exhibit faltering or fragmented prose accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty, my intempestive use of ellipsis points goes a long way to remove such lingering doubt. </p>
<p>On CC, I have had people pointing me to an implied quotation CC-etiquette or push the envelope (and my buttons) by complaining about my lack of clarity when linking to large excerpts. Heck, some people think that quoting Conrad’s “The horror, the horror” HAS to be a political commentary! And that is what I am told directly. </p>
<p>The simpler reality is that I use the dot.dot.dot to mark a pause, and point to an important item, or a whimsical or humorous one. This cavalier use of punctuation must, without doubt, infuriate the occasional grammar pedant, but I merely like how it breaks the monotony of a paragraph. In a world that has endorsed lunacies such as “comprised of” or the prununciation of amphitheatre with a hard P, I am giving myself a few … pleasurable liberties. </p>
<p>And that is the story I like to stick to. :)</p>
<p>“Sure, but at one point selective is selective. It is still silly, IMO, to divide places with acceptance rates of, say, < 25% into super-selective, super-duper-selective, and super-de-duper selective. They are all reaches for anybody, so what’s hte point?”</p>
<p>The point was to provide INFORMATION to readers about the school my DD applied to without actually naming it. In case someone found an acceptance rate of say 15% materially different from one of 6%. I assumed that people who did NOT find that information useful, would simply pass over it. Obviously I was wrong.</p>
<p>Actually, PG, I have to answer “yes.” For instance, since we share similar necks of the woods, I think you must have witnessed the joy and relief when students find out that the automatic admission to a Texas flagship has become a confirmed reality. For others, it is getting the quasi-automatic acceptance from Tulane, ASU, or others popular safeties for Texas students. While it does not represent the end of the possibilities, for a seventeen year to know that he or she will go to college is pure bliss.</p>
<p>We all know that nobody could ever be admitted without applying. This means that one ought to “shoot for the stars” and identify schools of various difficulties. However, my point, perhaps poorly expressed, is that a more thorough appraisal of one’s chances might mitigate the disappointment, especially when coupled with the satisfaction of having successfully navigated the safeties and “most-likely” schools. </p>
<p>After all those years on CC (insert self-deprecating smiley) I still believe many are begging for the distress that almost always come from excessive parental expectations and illusory notions of entitlement. The good news is that most get over the negativity extremely quickly. Unfortunately, some never get over it.</p>