<p>Really, @Sax? There are plenty of young men who work by day–yes, at pizzerias and the like–attend vocational school or community college at night, choose not to abuse drugs, and one way or the other carve out a reasonable life. This young man who, by the way, clearly had no intention to shoot anyone other than himself, had serious mental issues, like any other suicide. Let’s not blame the economy for the downward spiral of one troubled soul.</p>
<p>UGH. It sounds like his family knew that this was a possibility. </p>
<p>WHY oh WHY then did was the able to access the “assault-style weapon”? Yes, it says it was taken without permission, but if you know that a relative is unstable, wouldn’t the first thing you do is make sure that he/she doesn’t have any weapons- especially of that nature- accessible? Not “giving him permission” is clearly not enough. </p>
<p>The vast majority of mentally ill people are not violent. However, many people that ARE show warning signs before going and shooting up a place. If your loved one IS showing signs, for the love of all that is good- take away the guns from where he/she knows where they are and can access them.</p>
<p>Um…</p>
<p>I’m beginning to think this is a Rorschack test. </p>
<p>I’ve read a few of the news stories and watched it unfolding on the local news last night. Sax is off base, as the kid was employed at a pizzeria and attended a local community college, taking a course in HVAC systems. He lived at home with his parents and siblings. His family called the police while the incident was still unfolding. The shooter took his brother’s gun and left a note. His family knew it was him when they read the NOTE. Lets NOT assume that his family knew there was the possibility that he would do something violent before the incident occurred. Maybe they did–but lets NOT assume that.</p>
<p>Reports–which may or may not be accurate–say that he went to the mall in search of a particular person he expected to be there whom he intended to kill. If the reports are accurate, he DID have the intention of hurting someone. Other reports say that he did not intent to hurt anyone. I suspect the NOTE he left might shed some light on this, but thus far, I haven’t read any reports about the contents.</p>
<p>I do NOT think that all suicides have mental health issues. I think many people, especially young males, kill themselves or others impulsively. If there is no weapon near at hand, the impulse may pass and they resume control. It’s more a question of anger management than true mental illness. </p>
<p>Maybe this young man was mentally ill…but thus far we’ve seen no proof of that.</p>
<p>You’re right, jonri- I apologize. I was going off cobrat’s link. </p>
<p>I’ll say that IF the family knew and IF what is reported in that link is accurate about the family thinking their family member was involved then I stand by what I said (especially IF the claims of DV are founded).</p>
<p>Update: </p>
<p>Brother insists that the family didn’t see this coming and shooter did not intend to hurt anyone else. Incident may have been triggered by the fact shooter expected to be arrested in connection with drugs. </p>
<p>[Mall</a> gunman’s brother: ‘None of us saw [this] coming’ | NJ.com](<a href=“http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2013/11/garden_state_plaza_shooters_brother_speaks_out.html]Mall”>Mall gunman's brother: 'None of us saw [this] coming' - nj.com)</p>
<p>Here’s a video of the brother saying the family doesn’t know what caused it.
<a href=“http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2013/11/its_a_tragedy_says_brother_of.html#incart_photo[/url]”>http://videos.nj.com/star-ledger/2013/11/its_a_tragedy_says_brother_of.html#incart_photo</a></p>
<p>In a weird way, some good may come of this. The mall --and others–need to come up with better protocols for dealing with shooters. Maybe some preventive measures that prevent future deaths will be taken.</p>
<p>First, there is not much to add to your beautifully written post, teriwtt. It is spot on.
However, I’d like to re-post (I’ve posted before) some information about suicide from a well respected expert, Dr. Thomas Joiner. Suicide is very, very rarely impulsive, jonri. That is one of the many misconceptions. Here is the first of 2 articles [Understanding</a> and Overcoming the Myths of Suicide | Psychiatric Times](<a href=“http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide]Understanding”>http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide). If you cant acces the psychiatric times article, read this one [Why</a> Suicide Has Become an Epidemic–and What We Can Do to Help - Newsweek](<a href=“http://mag.newsweek.com/2013/05/22/why-suicide-has-become-and-epidemic-and-what-we-can-do-to-help.html]Why”>Why Suicide Has Become an Epidemic--and What We Can Do to Help)</p>
<p>Most suicidal people feel isolated, alienated, despair, sadness, and may have distorted, negative, self critical thinking.
Here’s the link to a previous thread that discussed suicide. Please read it. Pejoratives like “nut” or “lunatic” do not help.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1506611-have-you-ever-known-someone-who-has-committed-suicide-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1506611-have-you-ever-known-someone-who-has-committed-suicide-3.html</a></p>
<p>** and what is DV, romani?</p>
<p>Domestic violence</p>
<p>Oh, of course, thanks jonri. But who is claiming domestic violence was a factor in this situation? Did I miss something?</p>
<p>Report that he was involved in some sort of DV incident.</p>
<p>[Garden</a> State Plaza shooting suspect killed self in mall, authorities say | NJ.com](<a href=“http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/garden_state_plaza_mall_shooting_suspect_killed_himself_in_store_source_says.html]Garden”>Garden State Plaza shooting suspect killed self in mall, authorities say - nj.com)</p>
<p>There are LOTS of conflicting reports out there.</p>
<p>So I don’t think I am off base at all. Early reports had this young man unemployed. Other than that I was talking in general terms in regards to what causes a person to do these things and I mentioned several variables that can all come together to lead to this type of action. </p>
<p>And yes, I think unemployment /employment for very low wages has a huge effect on self esteem. Is it enough to cause this action alone. Not usually. But a contributing factor. Absolutely.</p>
<p>If there was a strong correlation between unemployment and mall shootings, there would be a lot more of these incidents.</p>
<p>Understand that yo are saying unemployment is a variable that can affect mood, self concept, etc. If you looked at any of the links from Dr Joiner on suicide, you’d also see reference to the isolation and despair that accompanies this thinking. According to my late mother, she had a relative who was unemployed during part of the depression in the 30’s. He killed himself, and a job offer came in the mail the next day.</p>
<p>I’ve been to that mall; it’s about 3 miles from my uncle’s house in Paramus. What’s interesting to me about the mall is that it is closed on Sundays because of local ordinances…the locals apparently don’t want extra traffic and commotion from busy mall in the local area on Sundays when they’re home from work. The locals like getting the taxes from mall, but don’t like much else about it.</p>
<p>A news article says the gun was only recently returned to the shooter’s brother after having been confiscated in a domestic violence incident.</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://teaneck.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/garden-state-plaza-gunman-found-dead-in-mall-prosecutor-says]Garden”>Garden State Plaza Gunman Committed Suicide In Mall | Teaneck, NJ Patch]Garden</a> State Plaza Gunman Committed Suicide In Mall - Police & Fire - Teaneck, NJ Patch<a href=“hit%20the%20%22read%20more%22%20link.”>/url</a></p>
<p>Sorry, jym, yes the DV was domestic violence and it was talked about in cobrat’s link earlier. </p>
<p>I shouldn’t have ran with it.</p>
<p>Wall St. Journal is reporting Shoop was despondent about a break-up with a girlfriend.
[Gunman</a> Fires Shots at N.J. Shopping Mall - WSJ.com](<a href=“http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303936904579178720578846410]Gunman”>Gunman Fires Shots at N.J. Shopping Mall - WSJ)</p>
<p>[Joblessness</a> And Hopelessness: The Link Between Unemployment And Suicide](<a href=“HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News | HuffPost”>Joblessness And Hopelessness: The Link Between Unemployment And Suicide | HuffPost Latest News)</p>
<p>This is a far mor reputable source that the Huffington post:
[Unemployment</a> and suicide. Evidence for a causal association? – Blakely et al. 57 (8): 594 – Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health](<a href=“http://jech.bmj.com/content/57/8/594.full]Unemployment”>http://jech.bmj.com/content/57/8/594.full)
</p>
<p>Saw the shooter’s friend, might be his brother’s sister who stated the shooter had texted her some very bizarre rantings, sounding delusional immediately prior to the shooting, same day. She expressed through tears regret that she hadn’t replied to his texts.</p>
<p>As far as suicide and mental illness;
Such studies have consistently found that the overwhelming majority of people who die by suicide—90% or more—had a mental disorder at the time of their deaths. </p>
<p>[Key</a> Research Findings](<a href=“http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/key-research-findings]Key”>http://www.afsp.org/understanding-suicide/key-research-findings)</p>
<p>I don’t think I saw the exact link you referenced and it may be entirely legitimate, but every time one of these things happens, a number of “friends” step up. So far, I think I’ve read articles identifying three people as his “best” friend.</p>
<p>“He texted her saying cops have been watching me and I’m going to leave my car to you in my will,” said Conahan, 21, of Teaneck.</p>
<p>[N.J</a>. mall shooting: Gunman sent out call for help, friend says | NJ.com](<a href=“http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2013/11/nj_mall_shooting_friends_of_shooter_didnt_know_he_was_depressed.html]N.J”>N.J. mall shooting: Gunman sent out call for help, friend says - nj.com)</p>