Should age matter?

prefect · August 4, 2009, 7:55pm

MomPhd and I may live in the same place, LOL. Around here, people hold back kids who are academically, socially, physically, and maturity level ready. They do it only because they do not want their kids to be the youngest and they think it will give them an advantage. I don’t think they’re thinking HYP, they’re just wanting an advantage. There’s a reason why a 5 year old kindergartner may seem immature- most of their classmates are starting K at 6 1/2. People in my community are no neurotic about not having their kid be the youngest, that I wouldn’t be surprised to see the average starting age of kindergartners reach 7. Once these parents find out that most kindergartners are 6, there is no way that they’ll send their 5 3/4 year old to kindergarten. He or she would be the youngest. For these people it’s not about their kid being socially or physically immature, it’s only about not being the youngest. I’m convinced that if for school sports, kids had to play with their age mates instead of their grade mates, a lot of parents (especially of boys) would decide that their kid really wasn’t so immature after all and could start kindergarten.

We all have stories of kids who were miserable being the oldest/youngest in a grade as well as kids who were thrilled and thrived being the oldest/youngest in a grade. There are compelling reasons for grade skips and there are compelling reasons to hold a child back. However, I don’t think holding a kid back ONLY so he/she won’t be the youngest is a compelling reason and I think this may be what the OP was getting at.

jook · August 4, 2009, 8:48pm

I definitely have some personal experience in this. I’m one (second oldest) of four sons in my family. The first three of us were born in July, while the youngest was born in November. We were all held back/repeated a year in school. When it came time for my older brother to enter Kindergarten (at age 5) my mother was hesitant to start him, but my father and the teacher felt he was ready. He passed K, but wound up repeating 1st grade because that teacher felt he needed an extra year. The rest of us did one year of K at our local public school at age 5, and then our parents sent us to do a second year (at age 6) of K at our private K-8 school. Socially I wouldn’t say that it had any major negative effects on me. I was a little strange playing sports as a child because I was rarely on the same team as my classmates (due to my age), but at least there was one student (boy) in the class a few months older than I was in K-8. I was a very average student academically and athletically until 8th grade, when I really hit puberty at age 14.

The only time I felt a little socially awkward was in high school (but who doesn’t? =-) ) because I was the only football player who was taking AP courses, and none of my AP classmates were nearly as successful (athletically) as I was. In some ways it was the best of both worlds, but in others it was a little difficult to fit in. Although I was not the most publicized player on my HS team and I was not our Valedictorian, I was in the top 20% of both. It was also tough at times because I was more mature than a lot of kids in my class; I went to parties, but didn’t get drunk, I never got detention in HS, and I wasn’t into a lot of the fads like they were. I only had a few good friends (mainly because hardly anyone was as balanced academically and athletically as I was) because my AP classmates seemed to only care about grades while my teammates seemed to only care about football. My age did make me somewhat of an oddity in both areas though. I was the oldest player on my HS football team and I was the oldest kid in my AP classes, and I was even older than several kids a grade above me. The other kids who were older than me or around my age were poor students, which I imagine is why they were held back to begin with.

Ironically enough at my HS, one of the youngest students in our class (a girl) was accepted in Stanford University, and didn’t turn 18 until half way through her first semester there. Other than her, the younger kids (many of whom were still 16 when we started our senior year) were usually up to par academically, but not socially. The girls (and one boy) were the party animals, drinkers, and seemed to always be surrounded by some drama.

Although it is more common for boys to be held back a year, I think this is a fairly case by case scenario for children. I, along with my three brothers, all graduated at age 18. Two of us were above average students in HS, while two struggled at times. Two of us are now playing college football, while two are content with being finished after HS. I’m not sure what I will do with my children, but if I had to choose now, I would say that I’m going to start them late.

LongPrime · August 4, 2009, 9:10pm

Girls in HS can finally have a wider selection of boys that are more their social maturity level.
No wonder I felt so stupid around my classmate girls. :)

somemom · August 5, 2009, 2:55am

I remember in the late 1980s deciding when to start my DD in Kgarten. We went with the normal time for her bday, but in middle school when I was making a series of phone calls from the class list I discovered fully 1/3 of the kids were born the prior year. Wasn’t it Piaget that was recommending a 2 year kgarten?

It was good that DD had not been bumped ahead in middle school for all that maturation, athletics, etc, but then she ended up skipping a grade later when we moved adn graduated HS at 16, so she still accelerated. She did fine, though probably would have had more amazing accomplishments and been more impressive for applications had she stayed behind a grade and blown her peers out of the water rather than skipping a grade and being solidly in the top group, but not a star.

But that was not our goal ;)

Marian · August 5, 2009, 7:12am

When my kids started school, back in the early 90s in New Jersey, it was commonplace to hold back boys with summer or fall birthdays but uncommon to do it for girls, who seem to develop the ability to sit still earlier. The parents of boys were legitimately concerned about their sons’ maturity and readiness to deal with formal schooling. I don’t know anyone who did it for athletic reasons. I was a Cub Scout leader when my son was in elementary school, and ALL of the boys in my den with birthdays within about three months of the October cutoff had entered kindergarten a year late.

Girls are different, though. My daughter went to kindergarten just a few weeks after her fifth birthday. She struggled with handwriting – which the teacher kept telling me was not “up to standard” in a tone that seemed to suggest that I should do something about it. However, my daughter had no other academic or social problems then or later. My son has a spring birthday, so we didn’t have to make a decision for him.

I have heard of another reason for holding kids back – the differences in age cutoffs in different communities. Families who anticipate that they may need to move during their children’s elementary school years sometimes hold their kids back because if they move and the child is too young to have met the cutoff for kindergarten in the new school system, the school may insist that the child repeat a grade in order to be the correct age for the grade. This is sometimes done with children as old as second or third grade. Unlike starting kindergarten late, repeating a grade can have a stigma that the child is aware of. Parents in geographically mobile families may want to avoid this.

cnp55 · August 5, 2009, 7:31am

I figure each kid has a ‘gap year option’ in their educational program. Some people use the gap year before kindergarten or first grade, some use it when transitioning from a public high school to boarding school, some use it to do a PG year between high school and college, some use it as a real gap year at that point.

For my sons, one took a PG to physically mature. He emotionally matured as well and is doing very well in college. The other did his gap/repeat transitioning from public to private school in middle school. He’s outgrowing the school, and I wish he’d graduated with his age group.

If I had to do it again … and for the record S1 is a Labor Day baby, S2 early summer … I would hold the ‘gap year option’ for both kids until high school and then decide where to go.

mom2three · August 5, 2009, 11:18am

My son made the cutoff by a week. We didn’t hesitate to put him in kindergarten at barely 5. 17 years later, I wonder if we should have let him “ripen” for another year.

But he was big for his age, gifted, completely ready for all the kindergarten work and more. And yet, in later years… the tincture of time might have been his friend. You just never know, do you.

MomPhD · August 5, 2009, 11:26am

As for delaying start of school for no compelling reason other than to give a very ready and able kid an extra competitive edge–I have seen these kids become superstars by HS graduation. Did the parents A) unfairly game the system or B) strategize very cleverly to set their child up for great success in school and college? Parents of the just slightly less successful classmates (kids WL instead of accepted at HPY) in my community seem to lean towards “A,” with some resentment/jealousy, and feel that the success is somehow tainted. Others have a kind of grudging admiration, viewing these parents are masters at planning. The kids themselves have become a little arrogant because they are consistently the best at everything. But in the long run, they get into a bigger pool in college with similar kids, no one in college knows or cares, and they go where the parents planned all along. So is it A or B?

emeraldkity4 · August 5, 2009, 1:02pm

I was started in Kindergarten when I was four- unfortunately, since I was small for my age & had delayed social and gross motor skills, it caused me difficulty throughout school.

To be fair- I believe I have dyspraxia which is a way of processing which makes me a little different anyway, but to combine it with being younger and smaller was a bad idea.

I have found that while kids weren’t necessarily red shirted, D does have friends that were in her grade, who were eight months older than her, and that can make a difference.

Sports teams however in this area, require birth certificates for registration and while you can participate with an older team, you cannot participate with younger one.

Both my D’s have late spring birthdays and while they began school at the " right" time, their relative youth compared to others in their classes, combined with processing difficulties, made some school issues more of a problem than they could have been, IMO, if we had more mixed age classes and grades.

However, they both took off a year before college, it helped older D & I hope it will help younger- although she is already beating herself up because she isn’t attending an Ivy like her friends.

MakeLoveNotWar · August 5, 2009, 3:06pm

I stumbled upon this page and I’m not a parent. From a students perspective, I think being older can be both and advantage and a disadvantage. It may be advanatgeous from an athletic and maybe even academic standpoint, but socially, it can make things slightly awkward. The student can have trouble relating to his younger peers.

europa · August 5, 2009, 4:06pm

I haven’t read all of this thread, so I don’t know if anyone else has raised this issue. Wouldn’t the competitive advantage of holding back a child who is otherwise developmentally/intellectually/physically ready diminish (disappear?) if “everyone” is doing it?

If all boys with late spring and summer birthdays are held back, then they’re only a few months older than kids with fall birthdays. Do those few months confer a truly significant competitive advantage?

I do understand that if nearly all kids are held back then the handful who are not may suffer since the majority of their peers are red-shirted. But if this practice is rampant in certain communities I wonder if the perceived advantages are overstated, and it’s used as a purely defensive measure.

I was astounded the first time I’d ever heard of this practice years ago, when my husband’s aunt & uncle suggested it because our child was due in the summer. To me, the phrase “holding back” had a very bad connotation and I couldn’t believe that any parent would want to do such a thing. How uninformed I was! Now I understand that some kids (almost all boys from what I’ve heard), simply haven’t matured enough to handle a structured classroom setting. My child was a girl, btw, and she was very ready both emotionally and intellectually for school two months after turning five.

With an October birthday, I didn’t turn five until nearly two months into kindergarten. The first time that I ever gave any thought to my late birthday was when driver’s ed rolled around–my peers got their licenses during sophomore year, while I had to wait! And now, of course, I’m delighted to be younger than my old friends, if only by a few months. ;)

Youdon_tsay · August 5, 2009, 4:09pm

I know earlier I said I never gave this much thought, but just today on Facebook a friend posted that her son, ds2’s classmate, just got his learner’s permit. And they haven’t even started HS yet! I guess it’s happening more than I realize. I’m sorry but the thought of this kid on the road and not even a freshman, technically, is scary.

EMM1 · August 5, 2009, 4:10pm

“Did the parents A) unfairly game the system or B) strategize very cleverly to set their child up for great success in school and college?”

The answer is clearly B. Our obligation as parents is to do everything within the rules to help our children succeed.

europa · August 5, 2009, 4:28pm

I agree with Youdon’t say–if the kid is an 8th-grader and is supposedly too immature for high school work then he’s certainly too immature to be behind the wheel of a car.

prefect · August 5, 2009, 4:38pm

I think the parents do game the system. Whether it’s fair or unfair could be debated. I will say that of the many kids I know who have been held back, none are “superstars.”

Marian · August 5, 2009, 4:56pm

I do know several who are “superstars” by the standards of most of the world – although perhaps not CC standards. All are male – but then, I know of few girls who were held back, and most of them turned out to have problems that could not be solved by a year of waiting.

In the most general terms (and I know there are exceptions), I think that parents who are feeling the need to consider holding back a girl who is of the age to start kindergarten should consider the possibility that something other than immaturity is the reason for any difficulties that they, or their daughter’s preschool teacher, are seeing. Holding a child back won’t solve anything if the real problem is a learning disability or a need for eyeglasses. Boys are a different matter. Many are not able to cope with the structure of kindergarten when barely (or not yet) five years old. In many instances, this does not reflect any problem that is likely to persist into the later school years.

europa · August 5, 2009, 5:00pm

^^I was thinking the same thing. Just looking at my daughter’s class, some of the top students had late birthdays and were not held back. Two of them started kindergarten in other districts and were allowed to come into ours in first grade despite having birthdays later than the Sept. 1 cutoff–and they were top students who will be starting law school in the fall.

That’s just anecdotal evidence–I’d like to see a more comprehensive study.

prefect · August 5, 2009, 6:59pm

Europa, that has been my experience also. Of course, just anecdotal. Marian, most of the kids I know were not held back for immaturity or other issues, but just because the parents did not want them to be the youngest.

katwkittens · August 5, 2009, 7:12pm

With 5 kiddos, 3 late summer birthdays (late August) and 2 late November birthdays we followed the state (CA- Dec. 1) guidelines. I didn’t really think about holding them back (young, stupid parent syndrome!) so off they went to K at 4 or turning 5 a few days after the start of school. Only middle daughter was the tiniest in her class, all through K-12. However, as that she was athletically inclined this in fact helped with her sports (gymnastics and diving), especially in high school and college when their bodies really change! Her brothers were always one of the biggest if not the biggest so size again was not really in play. All ending up on varsity football and wrestling teams as freshman so again it worked for them.

Since their middle sister held them to a high standard athletically they stepped up academically and in turn they became more socially and emotionally mature than some of their same gender peers. As far as driver’s licences in our household they weren’t permitted to get one until they graduated high school and were well on their way to graduating college. Not an age restriction, a “Mom” restriction.

Now that my oldest is 25 and all on their way I truly believe one of the biggest gifts we can give our children is time. Time to grow into themselves, figure out who they are, and live up to my “impossible” expectations for them. All attended public schools, qualified for gifted but after time in self-contained gifted programs realized it wasn’t for them.

Second youngest son was advanced similarly to Marite’s son in math and science and was also contacted by same MIT director with similar advice. However after some lengthy discussions with his sibs and mentors he decided to remain in high school. He like the rest of his sibs believe that school isn’t just academics or athletics but an opportunity to give something back to his school and local community.

He knew, like his older bro, he could graduate (had enough units both college and high school) mid sophomore year but decided to remain because he needed TIME to finish goals and projects he had put into motion. He started a large peer tutoring and counseling program, some science research at a local uni and was team captain for 4 years (like his sis) and wanted to help them to a championship.

We didn’t plan from infancy his admittance to HYP, heck I had a hard enough time planning dinner but that is where he ended up. And it wasn’t a huge leap but rather a natural progression of where he could contribute and he would be challenged in ways he never dreamed of. he too was admitted early to MIT but declined, saw himself doing other things for different reasons. His hardest decision was declining his appointment to West Point, a “fit” that echoes his committment to duty and serving others.

Seems right that his college choice has the motto of “in the service of the nation and in the service of all nations”. He ended up where he needed to be. And he has the latest birthday (late Nov), go figure.

I don’t really think size or physical prowess should determine when a child enters school but rather will it deter or encourage the love of learning? And I don’t think that is related to age. My youngest, received special services throughout school due to a compromised pregnancy and birth (birth mom used, alot) but matriculated on time, summer birthday and recently graduated with his class but it was not easy. However, the initial prognosis was a questionable educational future in a non-mainstreamed school setting.

Again, with time and effort he attended the same schools as his siblings. His problems were not due to age but rather learning disabilities.

When parents buy and sell homes to move into “better” school districts how is that different then holding a child back due to age for K? Or sending a child to a private school vs. their local public? or paying for SAT prep classes, or a private tutor, a personal coach for a sport, a private/traveling club for a sport or connections through their work to help gain access to excellent research facilities?

The OP asked is concerned about “gaming the system”. Some of kiddos’ peers would have been better off staying in school longer just to increase their chances of graduating or getting a least one decent meal for the day from the school, their concern wasn’t about getting an edge for HYP admittance.

Son was vocal about his reasons for staying and expected many to contribute in similar ways. He returns home each break and summer to check up on them and stays in touch throughout the school year. He says how happy he is that things are starting to change, so much for the better.

My kiddos never cared how old they were in relation to others. Probably never occurred to them. Too dang busy, living up to my “impossible” expectations.

Kat

justamom_01 · August 6, 2009, 1:53pm

Personally, prefer the term “held out” rather than “held back”.

Both of my sons have summer birthdays. My youngest made the cutoff to start kindergarten at age 4, by a grand total of 6 hours and 5 minutes.

With my oldest son, I anguished over the decision to put him in kindergarten “on time”. He was gifted, already reading, but was socially immature. I have not for one moment regretted my decision to start him late. The thought that he might gain an advantage never occurred to me at that point. I was simply concerned about what was best for him.

I took a different course with his brother. My baby went to his first day of kindergarten before his fifth birthday. His kindergarten year was an absolute disaster with the older children. It made my decision to place him in “transition” rather than first grade the next year quite easy. Again, I have never regretted it.

I will say that there is one distinct advantage that was pointed out to me when we were in the decision-making process: If your kids are the oldest, they are generally the first drivers in the class. It gave me some peace of mind to know that when my kids were 15 they weren’t in the car their new driver classmates–including those who had not received the same kind of driving instruction I provided to my children.

Should age matter?

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