<p>Why do progressives think that the federal government should do everything for them? You DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO COLLEGE nor do you have a right to housing.</p>
<p>There is zero reason why I and anyone else should be forced with a gun to our heads to pay for someone else to go to college.</p>
<p>This “living constitution” theory is garbage.</p>
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Actually, I’m in favor of abolishing the federal government. But that’s because I’m a communist, a bit better than a “progressive.”</p>
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So, going to go overthrow Pell Grants?</p>
<p>People should man up and deal with the fact that they should work hard.“dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you are willing to pay the price,” Vince Lombardi. I love how people state that without a degree they can’t succeed in life. Here’s a list of successful people without a degree: paul Allen, Mary Kay ash, Halle berry, Michael Dell, Henry ford, bill gates, Andrew Jackson, Rachel ray, Lebrun James, Kobe Bryant, John d. Rockefeller, Steven Spielberg, mark zuckerberg, mark twain, David Geffen, Steve jobs, and this is a list of famous people. Imagine the list of those who aren’t famous and didn’t get a degree who are successful. College is a choice and something extra for those who want it.
Also we are not currently in a recession, just goes to show the little economic knowledge you possess. The recession ended in 2009.</p>
<p>College should not be a right. Here is an interesting idea (not mine):
Students should be tested in elementary school (3rd Grade or so). The top 25% could get on the college track, while the other 75% of kids get on the vocational track (there could be another chance to test into the college track at a later time). The college track kids would take more advanced academics, and they would have access to better academic resources. The vocational track would continue with their academics, but begin learning more about vocational and industrial careers. At the end of fifth grade or so, they would go into their specific interest, with the better kids getting the first slots. The vocational kids would then be on track to becoming a farmer, or a carpenter, and some kids being a factory worker. The college kids would go on their tracks to become physicians, registered nurses, engineers, teachers.
Kinda crazy, huh? It has its flaws, but I think with tweaking, it could become a good idea.
Also, people should be limited to having 1 child replace themselves. Or a couple having 2 children. That would eventually stabilize the population size.</p>
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A great deal of those people either dropped out of really good colleges to hit it big, or were from a time when college was far less important.</p>
<p>And you honestly believe economic success derives from the amount of work you put in?</p>
<p>^so what about the poorer kids in bad schools? Does that mean because they are more likely to get not go to college? They are more likely to get a bad education, be malnurished, and not have education put as a priority. This effects them in high school, which will cause them to have lower grades, and tests scores.</p>
<p>Your system favors the rich, Asian, and middle to upper class whites, blacks, and Hispanics. The poor will have a harder time to move ahead.</p>
<p>i don’t believe it should be a right, but i do, however, disagree with the expenses that a student must pay for tuition… it’s unfair for harvard-quality students to be unable to attend their dream schools simply because they can’t afford it. it’s terrible, and i wish something could be done about it.</p>
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<p>Quite flawed. I wasn’t engaged in heavy schooling until 6th grade, that was when I got serious about academics. You can’t decide the potential of a child based on their nine-ten year old minds. Too many mindsets change and you could have a brilliant child at nine who gets into drugs at fourteen. </p>
<p>Population is going down at the moment, not sure why that last bit was added in.</p>
<p>@evanmward, your system is atrocious. It is terrible. Everyone develops at different times. Your system seems to resemble the systems performed by communist nations; the complete antithesis of a free nation. Those countries are awful places to live in. And your system to balance the population is disgusting as well.
@dolorousedd, many of those people still hit it big without any of the education they received. Lebron James and Kobe Bryant are from this time and are both incredibly successful and never attended college. These are just a few incredibly successful examples. There are plenty of individuals who never attended college and are quite rich, I bet you have heard of many of them. And honestly I do believe hard work can lead to economic success. All of those individuals I mentioned worked hard and became rich. Working hard is not the only factor, but it is a major one. People with your mindset that working hard doesn’t pay off are exactly the lazy kind who are despicable. You are just too lazy and want everything handed to you on a silver spoon. People who think like that are never going to succeed.
@masterofpuppets, your statement about harvard-quality students who can’t afford college is misinformed. Harvard as well as many of the top 30 universities will give incredible financial aid to the point that some students don’t pay anything. I have confidence that those kids who are smart will find a way to make a living and pass on their aspirations for their children. There offspring will no doubt have fantastic opportunities. These kids most likely don’t even need college to succeed.</p>
<p>I believe college is simply a boost, for those who can find the way to make it happen. College is by no means necessary, but it does possess many benefits. I personally know numerous individuals who could not regularly afford college, but found the means to legally pay for college. They just had to settle for not going to the greatest college in the world. I also know many individuals who did not go to college who are quite successful.</p>
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“Professional athlete” is a very limited profession. The allegation isn’t “No one in the history of the world ever did anything remotely successful without a college degree,” it’s “people who go to college have more opportunities and are less likely to end up poor.”</p>
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And far far far more who are poor, I bet you haven’t heard of most of them.</p>
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Wait, now it’s can? Not does? Thank you for clarifying.</p>
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And there are far more who worked much harder and remained poor.</p>
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So is what social class you’re born into, your access to education, your willingness to exploit others, and often luck.</p>
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The people I know who work the hardest are members of the lower/working-class who do labor jobs 80/90 hours a week and still have trouble rising from poverty. I’m actually out to revolutionize the world; say what you will, but that’s hardly “lazy.” Compare, if you will, the average life of a working-class person to the average life of a rich person.</p>
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Actually, I want to eliminate both wealth and poverty, unite humanity, and bring about a world, classless, stateless society in which the means of production are controlled by the workers themselves. I’m not asking for anything to be handed to me; and not much was, at least compared to other US citizens, given my poor background.</p>
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Well, what you just described isn’t how I think, but it is how many rich people think. You know, those who inherit wealth through no merit of their own.</p>
<p>how many of you have ever met someone who busts their @$$ working and spends responsibly, yet still struggles to support themselves?</p>
<p>no?</p>
<p>you haven’t been around the country much</p>
<p>@dolorousedd, Athletics is not a limited profession think of all of the major options involved in athletics for those who did not receive a college degree. If you had up all of the professional soccer players, football players, basketball players, baseball players, wrestlers, tennis players, etc. You have a large amount of athletes who use their athletic talent everyday as their means of bringing home money. They are not a limited number of individuals. Then think of all of the agents, caddies, trainers, and other individuals who are involved in athletics and how they did not need a degree to be where they are. Then you can discuss all of the musicians who have been successful and did not attend college. I bet you that at least 85% of the successful musicians did not attend college before they made it big. Then you can discuss numerous other professions like actors, entrepreneurs, engineers, and many other who did not receive a degree. There are so many people who are successful and yet only about 15-20% of Americans have or will attend college. That just goes to show that many have been successful without a degree.
Yes there are many individuals who are poor and I feel sorry for, but this is the land of opportunity let’s make something of it. Their education did not have a primary factor into the economic situation. There are plenty of individuals who attended college or prestigious prep schools and are living on the streets. Many people are poor because of bad luck, poor decisions, specific situations, and other reasons.
For your info, I never said hard work will lead to economic success, there are too many factors. Some of these factors include good connections, being at the right place at the right time, making smart decisions, saving your money, not trusting others too easily, and so many more. And your social class statement is incorrect. There are so many people who change social classes in America. But if you put in the work your chances increase tremendously. You’re too lazy to realize this.
I know many people who work hard just like those who you mentioned. I work in jobs similar to them and have numerous discussion with them. They work their butt off everyday, and you know what. They all have told me that even if they don’t strike it big, it was worth the shot because otherwise they would never know. And they said that as long as they can provide some opportunity for their children then they were successful.
I have compared the average life of a working person to that of a rich person. There are differences but there are similarities. Rich people worked hard and now are reaping the fruits of their labor. If you are going to use someone like Paris Hilton as your example of a rich person then you are just stupid and God help you. If you use a rich person like Gene Simmons then you understand that hard work pays off.
Rich people are not lazy either. That’s just a terrible stereotype based off of examples like Paris Hilton. Many rich people work their butts off everyday. </p>
<p>@IBfootballer, I have met someone who busts their @$$ and everything like you said. These individuals would be my grandparents, some aunts and uncles, some cousins, as well as people I work with. Yet they all had or have the smarts to realize that in the end they will have been successful in their own measurement.</p>
<p>College should not be a right. There are many ways to be able to attend college now. If someone truly wants to go, they should be able to find a way - assuming they have the requisite skills. This question seems to be a microcosm of the larger societal issues concerning entitlements. We are not (or so I thought) a socialist society. We are a democratic, capitalist culture. We should be rewarding capability and achievement. Do YOU think that this line of (educational) reasoning has anything to do with our progressively deteriorating academic performance in comparison with other countries of the world? By the way, I am old, overweight and can’t jump but I want to be in the NBA - it should be my right - shouldn’t it?</p>
<p>This is a common misconception</p>
<p>Hard work does not always equate to success</p>
<p>You can’t work for years at a low paying job and expect to be rich someday.</p>
<p>All those successful people had GREAT IDEAS and put their hard work towards them.</p>
<p>Putting hard work towards something that only gives you the basics such as food and housing will get you no where</p>
<p>Working hard in labor does not mean one works harder than say…a ceo of a company.</p>
<p>“Yet they all had or have the smarts to realize that in the end they will have been successful in their own measurement.”</p>
<p>I think that’s an important statement. Everyone’s definition of success is different. My friend wants to be a special education teacher. She will be successful if she touches the lives of her students and opens up doors and opportunities they probably thought were not even available to them because of their disabilities.</p>
<p>I’ve heard other people tell her she’s too smart to be a teacher. Other people wonder why she wouldn’t want to be a principal or someone else in charge. Other people tell her that she can be a lot more successful in other careers related to special education because she will be more wealthy.</p>
<p>Like my friend, not everyone values success by the amount of money a person makes. Those that do might have a different perception of success based on their backgrounds-one person might strive to be a millionaire while another might strive to earn at least $100,000 annually. </p>
<p>My point is you can’t measure a person’s success as an outside source based on their income, job, or level or education. Only the individual going through the experience can truly measure their success.</p>
<p>@madogmgd, I agree with you. One can’t go and say rich ceo’s don’t work hard, they truly do. </p>
<p>@delorousedd, I just want to ask you something. Has there ever been a successful communist/socialist country? The answer is no. A perfect society is impossible. By nature humans are competitive. Every attempt at a perfect society has resulted in ruin. There’s a reason why democratic republics are ideal, they satisfy human needs and they survive.</p>
<p>My ideal would be to equalize K-12 education so that everyone has a fair chance of going to college if they work hard.</p>
<p>I don’t think everyone should go to college because it’s a waste of resources since lots of jobs don’t require college degrees. The fact that college grads earn more and are less unemployed is the problem that we should be trying to fix, not the basis that we should be operating on. Fix the problems with poverty and make it possible to live comfortably on just a high school degree.</p>
<p>@GotToHaveFaith, I think you’ve hit the point of success spot on.</p>
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Wait, you don’t think only a limited amount of people can be professional athletes? So professional athlete is a viable career for the majority of humanity, as long as everyone works hard enough at it? Well…</p>
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How do you define successful? Most musicians who get a job in a major orchestra went to a conservatory (music college).</p>
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You keep bringing up rare, celebrity jobs. Only 20% go to college? Well, only around 1% control the whole damn economy, so it fits.</p>
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A catchy slogan does not the truth make.</p>
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So the average poor person would still be poor even if they were highly skilled thanks to a good college education?</p>
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Statistically far less likely than those who did not.</p>
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People are poor because a capitalistic society needs a large lower class to continue functioning. Any upward motion by one or more people is met by downward motion elsewhere.</p>
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“Being born into the upper class” is a pretty large one.</p>
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And far, far more who do not. Individuals can rise out of poverty, but the group as a whole cannot, while the rich remain rich.</p>
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So [these</a> children](<a href=“http://haveyoureadthebible.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/starvation1.jpg]these”>http://haveyoureadthebible.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/starvation1.jpg) just need to stop being lazy and they’ll be able to rise out of poverty? Expressing my feelings toward what you’re saying would break too many of this forum’s rules, but suffice it to say that you are sadly sheltered and blinded by your limited views.</p>
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Oh? You work 90 hours a week of hard labor?</p>
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Yay anecdotes. Yes, people try to do better for their children. Much of the world cannot provide for their children, thanks to the great amount of poverty necessitated by just how much of the world’s wealth is concentrated in the rich.</p>
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Approximately one half of the wealthiest people in America inherited family fortunes. Yay hard work!</p>
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Not to the degree of the poor laborer.</p>
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It is impossible to be a communist country, though I suppose I should wait until you take some philosophy/economics courses before expecting you to know that. There also hasn’t been a fully socialist country, though European social democracies (more socialist than capitalist) seem to be doing well for their citizens, as they have a higher standard of living, higher education standard, and smaller class divide. And a democratic republic could just as easily be socialist as communist; and if you wanted a democratic world, then a democratic economy (communism) would be preferable to an economic oligarchy of the rich (capitalism).</p>
<p>" I have met someone who busts their @$$ and everything like you said. These individuals would be my grandparents, some aunts and uncles, some cousins, as well as people I work with. Yet they all had or have the smarts to realize that in the end they will have been successful in their own measurement"</p>
<p>1) I bet they all had an example in their life to help them learn the value of busting @$$. For many other folks, this is not the case. Finding this motivation on one’s own is possible, but it is far from ordinary. This necessarily means that the vast majority of folks who don’t have an example in their lives to teach them the value of hard work, perseverance, and frugality are not going to do it.
2) Regardless of your attitude in that situation, you’re a broken limb and a missed paycheck away from disaster.</p>
![http://haveyoureadthebible.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/starvation1.jpg]these](http://haveyoureadthebible.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/starvation1.jpg%5Dthese){kind=link}
