Don’t we have copious examples of late bloomers who find are smart but disorganized/unmotivated in high school but hit their stride in college – maybe especially after finding a good-fit liberal arts college? I certainly know many IRL.
ETA I hadn’t read @momofboiler1 's injunction when I wrote this but I think it applies more broadly to the idea of not fixating on all roads leading to/through elite colleges.
Our college counselor (who ironically has been a bit of a dud) has a child who graduated from high school with a B average and a learning disability but eventually found their way in a CTCL school and is now working on a PhD in physics, doing research at a national lab. These things happen!
Or eligible for need based aid. I honestly think this is a bigger issue with College Confidential than the prestige bias. The vast majority of posters assume it’s a donut hole family and push that narrative obnoxiously. Yes many families find the family contribution to be higher than they want to pay, but it is by no means universal. The number of posters immediately jumping to cheap schools of no interest to the OP is tiresome.
Adding to the financial piece, I think many responders strongly encourage and prioritize a no-debt (or very low-debt) college experience to a degree that I don’t agree with. Yes, college costs are outrageous; yes, too much student loan debt can be crippling. However, I’m a living example of someone who took out significant debt (relative to the time, the 90s) and have never had a moment of regret. My college experience was transformative for me and I don’t believe I would have had the same growth if I had focused exclusively on cost or chosen the college that happened to be most affordable.
I think our job as responders is to try and understand a student’s priorities and situation (financial considerations being a very important component), and to provide various options/ideas, but not necessarily steer them to the most affordable options unless they have made it clear that low/no debt is a critical factor for them. Some students might find, as I did, that the overall experience of attending a college in a large city, far from home (and more expensive) was invaluable and worth the debt.
An issue is that CC is more of a Cheerleading forum than it is one for legitimate critiques. What is the point of seeking advice if responses are supposed to focus on cheerleading and compliments rather than on learning ?
Many, probably most, learn more from their mistakes than from what they do right.
I think this is true. If someone says they’re looking at cars, I’d be apt to start talking about Fords or Toyotas (i.e. brands that can be affordable and accessible to a large portion of the population). I wouldn’t start off talking about BMWs/Mercedes, or Ferraris/Lamborghinis unless the person said, hey, I’ve got the means and I’m interested in getting a luxury or supercar from a brand I’ve been dreaming about since I was a kid.
Just as it can be uncomfortable for someone to be presented with school options that are way beyond their academic background to get into, it can also be uncomfortable for someone to be presented with options that are way beyond their family’s economic means.
Because of that, I frequently will ask about the budget and a person’s academic background if they haven’t already shared that info. And if they’ve shared academic info (but no budget), I will try and start off with schools that offer merit aid to strong students or that have a more modest sticker price. I’d rather find out that people have higher academic levels/economic means and alter those suggestions to fit rather than to start off setting expectations of possibilities at a higher level and then retrench when those aren’t realistic possibilities for the poster.
But net college tuition in total is declining and has been for over a decade. I think many don’t understand that, and when you are talking about spending that kind of money, getting educated makes sense.
I rarely recommend more than the $27K in total direct student loans for undergrad, and think that’s generally not an issue for most students. Generally (not always), if one has to take out more than that in loans, they can find a more affordable option. Of course when deciding to take on debt each family’s situation is unique, but educating them on options, that there are likely less costly options, and what life will look like with $X monthly debt payment can be a good thing.
I disagree. I think it is critical to remember our audience, if it’s a student posting, is
16 or 17 years old
very anxious
insecure
possibly immature (compared to adults)
sensitive.
Accordingly, it is important to choose ones words carefully, and not to criticize simply for the sake of criticizing. If the OP cannot change the thing at issue there is no point in telling them they messed up. What good does that do?
Furthermore, what expertise do you – or any of us – have? Seriously – of course we all think we are correct, but all we are doing, ultimately, is guessing. So I would urge a little humility in making our points.
You seem very certain of the advice you give, do you in fact have special expertise? If you don’t want to share it publicly why not tell the mods and see if you can’t become a forum champion? If no special expertise, consider dialing it down a bit.
Hey, this is a great point!..These all sound like me, and I just wanted to chime in and agree that–as a student–because my stats could be percieved at the somewhat bottom half of CC users (who are students). Since I believe that is the case (my stats being lower), I do end up sometimes responding in a way that shows immaturity (yes, I am being honest), a form of insecurity (as once I start reading other posts I realize just how much I could be incapable getting into College X because a poster has higher stats, better ECs, etc., then me!) Plus…yeah, once the reading of people’s chances are higher than mine does contribute to my anxiety and catastrophizing, possibly realizing I won’t get in.
This is 100% (from my very limited student CCer POV).
Just wanted to say that, despite the attention it pays to elite schools, CC was, by far, the most helpful resource for finding likely & target schools for my S25 (he wants a LAC but I wasn’t sure we could pay for it). Thanks to this board’s suggestions, he applied to several LACs with acceptance rates over 50% (he’s already been accepted to 2 of them with merit that makes them comfortably affordable)–I didn’t know much about these schools & the positive posts about them here helped move them up his list.
CC seems much quieter recently, even compared to last year–I’ve really valued this space & hope people are still here in a year to help me find likelies for my '27.
I agree that it’s smart to provide people with some facts and perhaps even a reality check when it comes to repayment of student loan debt. I think your recommendation of $27K total debt—while certainly a sensible number—might discourage some students from incurring more debt for a college experience that could be very impactful.
I had about $50K when I graduated in 1995 and that was a big number at the time. Like I said above, I’ve never had a moment of regret. I’m so grateful that people weren’t telling me what a bad idea it was to take out those loans (in a combination of government-sponsored and private loans; I was a Pell grant student) or urging me to stick with my local (and cheaper) state university. While I’m sure it would have worked out, I’m also sure it would have been a very different experience and would not have been the growth experience I had attending a private university in a major East coast city 2000 miles from my small hometown. I had a wonderful college experience that broadened my horizons academically, socially and culturally and the loans were repaid by 2001 or 2002, which I recognize might not be possible for everyone.
My point is that I think we should offer facts and information and then allow the student and their family to weigh the variables without us (as responders) putting a thumb on the scale.
As a community of self-proclaimed advisors, I think it would benefit everyone if each of us did the following:
–Differentiate between expertise and opinion (aka “I know” and “I believe”). This is both for ourselves (when we choose to comment) and others (how we choose to present it). Many of us have specific knowledge on well-defined matters - many of our forum champions know some things in detail, I have some specific areas I’m very knowledgeable about, etc. Many of us also have opinions (“taking more than 27K in debt is very risky”). I’d honestly rather we just talked about the first, but if you’re going to share the second, be clear that it’s your view of the world, not some sort of objective information.
–Prioritize ways of thinking over blanket statements. Blanket statement: “don’t apply ED if you aren’t 100% sure.” Ways of thinking: “Here are some tradeoffs when applying ED vs. RD that [apply to your specific situation].” Just telling kids what to do is both not our job and not particularly helpful for their processing outside of CC.
