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<p>Are we talking about the same schools? I mentioned HYPSM as the very elite group. For most applicants they are now cheaper than State U. I must have missed the stampede!</p>
<p>You might get run over. </p>
<p>You aren’t even trying to understand, are you? LOL Just look around. I bet you can find one or two “popular” threads right now with just a few unhappy folks. Sheesh. </p>
<p>Just because you lucked out on your FA (or was it skillful manipulation?) doesn’t mean everybody does even at the sainted schools.</p>
<p>I think we’re mostly coming at this backwards. The schools adopt policies that are best for THE SCHOOLS. It’s not about what’s fairest to everyone. It’s about bringing the students they want to their campus. Thus far, governments have largely allowed schools to set their own priorities, and the result is that they act in their own self-interest. It’s reasonable to argue that the government should exert more control over these non-profit (i.e. subsidized) entities, but we shouldn’t get confused about what’s going on right now.</p>
<p>Myself, I like that the government is not trying to tell universities too much about how they should operate. I think it benefits the country for us to have the best possible universities, public and private, and we’re getting pretty good results on that score under the current system.</p>
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<p>I don’t believe you can have it both ways. On the one hand, get subsidized in-state tuition and on the other hand expect a lot of financial aid. The only way to achieve that result woud be to increase tuition for all. I realize that even in-state tuition can be a significant burden to families. It also appears from your post that you ended up spending the same at another state university so I am not sure I understand the point. UConn’s merit aid policies are published and very narrowly focused. Beyond that they provide an unrestricted one time $2,500 scholarship to valedictorians and salutorians from state high schools.</p>
<p>UCONN has been given billions after a number of athletic teams were successful. Only the football team has been successful since the money started pouring in and I doubt the money had any impact. A number of my daughter’s friends are at UCONN. Unfortunately, my daughter was anxious to get out of CT so she didn’t even apply.</p>
<p>Here’s a link to a thread started by tokenadult. Lots of unhappy folks. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/480180-colleges-have-given-you-disappointing-financial-aid-offers.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/480180-colleges-have-given-you-disappointing-financial-aid-offers.html</a></p>
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I hear you loud and clear. That’s exactly what happened in other thread. </p>
<p>In CC this forumn and other forumns almost every one complains about FA.</p>
<p>The ones get ‘full FA’ complain about the ‘work-study’ and paying tax on top of it. </p>
<p>The ones get ‘partial FA’ complain about can’t meet their EFC and their kid would take out more loans than the one get full FA without loans. </p>
<p>The ones diddn’t get a penny complain others not saving up got better FA deal than them. Most of these type complains are from parents who worked their butt off and trift to death to saveup. … yet these are the ones got most slamed on. </p>
<p>I agree with what zoosemom said. </p>
<p>PA Mom was right about OOS offers MERIT scholarship to bring down the cost to OOS students to IS cost to entice the high score students. I personally know couple of cases.</p>
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<p>I would make an educated assumption that isn’t the case. How many athletes and minorities are there compared to the student body? I would venture that they are few in comparison with the total population. There are many kids with high gpa’s, test scores, and ec’s. Apparently your D was one of many, and as a result, there are many that are willing to take her spot. Not so many that are high achieving minorities or blue chip athletes. Thus, one doesn’t have to be an economist to know that in certain college circles and in life in general, the more scarce a desired commodity, the more valued it is. As for some kids that get more OOS aid, geographical factors, and a lower number of available high achieving students, may have been in your child’s favor as opposed to the in state offers.</p>
<p>Finding this website early has been an invaluable resource in identifying my child’s strengths, and presenting his body of work and intangibles, and hoping for and getting optimum outcomes.</p>
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<p>I don’t want to “slam” on anyone? I respect the opinions of people who voice their dismay, distress, bitterness, or whatever you name it. </p>
<p>However, ranting without providing ANYTHING in the form of a possible solution does deserve a “slam.” </p>
<p>Since the “peny saver” who thinks that asking her to spend 5% a year from her nestegg to educate HER kid is too much “screwing”, I’d ask her again what would she like to see as an … improvement. </p>
<p>In turn, since she singled out the people who complain about the taxes on scholarships, I’ll offer my solution. And here it is: allow me to defer the taxes until I earn an income after graduation AND charge me interest at the interest of school loans. No gift … no gimmicks. And, I’ll add one more request: make the rules clear and uniform and consider reviewing the tax code that created this animal … by mistake. Review the intent and then publish clear regulations. </p>
<p>Fwiw, I CAN tell you why the current system of taxing a scholarship that covers room and board, and books, and travel reimbursement is bad, or at least it’s timing is. It is bad because it causes people to IGNORE the problem and HOPE not be caught. The reality is that the students who are hit by the taxes rarely have the resources (most have zero EFCs) and may NOT be able to borrow the money. If that does not make much sense, just think on the relative difficulty to find $800 at a family of four that earns $20,000 per year --and especially after having the greatest difficulty to find the money that was NOT covered by the scholarship. If you think that work-study or working during the summer provides the answer, think again because those are already required by the student EFC contributions that are on top of the EFC. And last but not least, think that many of the students who are in this situation are exactly the ones who need most of their time to stay afloat at competitive school, not only financially but academically. </p>
<p>And, yes, this should not be YOUR problem at all. It should be the student’s problem. However, to this quagmire, there IS a solution and one that is as elegant as simple: defer the income and collect the money when it’s more feasible. </p>
<p>And, this brings me back to the original question: “Why is your problem a problem to begin with, and what is YOUR solution?”</p>
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I offered the solution long time ago. Tuition pay out of parents pocket tax deductable. IMO, its only fair since both give and receive side of FA got tax exception treatment on tuition and fee part.</p>
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You were right, it was not my problem. Tell you what, both of us put ourself through a graduate education in a non name college while we raise our kid at the same time, not long time ago. Both of us had worked two jobs at time. While it may not doable in elite college, but it was doable in some non name college. fyi, we did not take out any loan. The only loan we had taken was when we purchase the house. We just don’t like pay any unnecessary interest whenever we can avoid by adjust our spending. Call me ‘stingy’ or ‘Dollar saver’ whatever you like, guess this is why pains me when I have to dig deep to pay all the $200k after tax money. That’s why I have the feel for the OP in another thread.</p>
<p>btw, in case you don’t know the %5 yield you implied has to pay tax on top. It was actually only around 2.5-3%. Not enough for the inflation.</p>
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Don’t be freaking out. 
It won’t happen if your S/D roommate with my kid. We have a little socialist at home, think the full FA suppose to put every one in campus at even field. But the work-study requirement in FA put these FA kids at disadvantage, since FA kids have to work to meet work-study requirement instead of study, compare the full pay (by parents) students. He completely forgort “there is no free lunch”, ‘someone’ down the line or upper the line have to work to pay. The full pay kids don’t have to work, because their parents had done the work for them. May be we diddn’t mention those hard years experience enough to him. Is this a type of ‘entitlement’ mentality (mentioned in another thread) to their parent? I’m confused. … Don’t know if he will have the same mentality down the road when he has to pay his kids’ college. It’s hard to say, because he may not have my experience.</p>
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<p>You’d have a hard time finding a bigger supporter of making all education expenses fully tax-deductible. Of course, while you may not realize it, that would also make MY problem disappear, but that is another issue. The fact that education is not fully deductible is an insult to every taxpayer in the country, especially since every President since Ronald Reagan has been an “Education President.” </p>
<p>Also, please note that my position does not stop at college education. All education from K-16 should be tax-deductible for starters as the real objective should be a full and universal voucher system for all parents. If you do not like a system that pits different classes of ciizens against one another, take a look at the K-12 area and the plight of parents who are not served well by the public system of education. </p>
<p>Give everyone in the country the same dollars that are spent in New York City most expensive public school, and you’d might have a whole lot less need for financial aid in a matter of two generations. </p>
<p>Of course, the chance of that happening in a country where the education is controlled by a combination of thieves, lazy, and corrupt public “servants” protected by political abominations such as the AFT and NEA is as good as the middle class getting a 50% discount at every school in the country. Actually, your chances are better! </p>
<p>At least, when it comes to college, most people DO have a choice. For 90% of our citizens, the way that 600 billion is spent every year is none of their business. By the way, if we were to implement all the measures that are on the agenda of the NEA, you need to add another 800 billion to the figure.</p>
<p>Cur: It’s not cynical. I’m almost sure the new no loans incentives are to stave off the sticky fingers of Congress.</p>
<p>And a word about merit scholarships. Thank goodness for them. They are a great boon for all of us, not only for the exemplary students who earn them and continue to earn them, for their parents who don’t have to gnash teeth and cry their eyes out because their kid is in community college learning what they already learned in eighth grade, but even more for the colleges themselves.</p>
<p>Stellar students inspire teachers and elicit the best from their classmates. By choosing to go the merit route a stellar student may find herself at a school in Tennessee instead of a school if MA or CT and give so much to her classmates and faculty that it’s only fair she be rewarded by her ability to attend.</p>
<p>If need based FA creates some economic diversity at elite institutions that are need blind, and if we see this as a benefit, merit aid creates some equality of educational experience. And it makes little difference if that merit aid helps a kid attend a public or private. If merit aid is given, it stands to reason that the school needs to attract more high achieving students. If this inducement did not exist, the education of the rest of the students would suffer.</p>
<p>I really believe this.</p>
<p>Economic and ethnic diversity fosters multiple points of view, essential to education.</p>
<p>Excellent students raises the bar. I’d argue that this is also essential to education.</p>
<p>And full pay development students whose stats are lower than their cohort also contribute by bringing in money for new lab equipment. And they have put themselves in the lion’s mouth because once there they have to take the same tests, write the same papers and struggle right along with everyone else.</p>
<p>The system should be fixed so the most kids can get an excellent education, not so that the most kids can just get an education.</p>
<p>In fact, I would argue that to truly be educational only the highest standards must prevail. After all, saying 3 + 3 = 5 and claiming the answer was close is an analogy for a mediocre education.</p>
<p>Today my students attempted to enact scenes from The Tempest without having looking up the words they didn’t know how to pronounce or those whose meanings they didn’t know. And they knew they were being graded on their performance. Low grades do not scare them.</p>
<p>I insisted they spend the class looking up the words. Thank goodness for internet connection on the phones! Many had a dictionary in their favorite gizmo. Imagine that!</p>
<p>Oh, the county I teach in (not the one I live in) is enormously wealthy. I have really wealthy kids in class right alongside some of the poorest kids you can imagine. And no one looked at income statements for admission. The really wealthy get a virtual free education at CC. Is this FA for the wealthy? Hm.</p>
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<p>Mythmom, while my opinion on this has no relevance, you might want to check a few of the scholarly research and other sources that seem to disagree with the benefit of increasing merit aid. Sorry for not being able to post the Cliffs’ Notes, but it’s worth reading if the matter of policy trumps the individual opinion. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.wiscape.wisc.edu/publications/attachments/cf018Heller.pdf[/url]”>http://www.wiscape.wisc.edu/publications/attachments/cf018Heller.pdf</a></p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.educationalpolicy.org/pdf/PPMerit.pdf[/url]”>http://www.educationalpolicy.org/pdf/PPMerit.pdf</a></p>
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<p>[Tennessee</a> Reconsiders Tilt to Merit Aid :: Inside Higher Ed :: Higher Education’s Source for News, and Views and Jobs](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/14/tennessee]Tennessee”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/14/tennessee)</p>
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<p>[As</a> Merit-Aid Race Escalates, Wealthy Often Win (washingtonpost.com)](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63887-2005Apr18.html]As”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63887-2005Apr18.html)
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<p>[Who</a> Should We Help? The Negative Social Consequences of Merit Aid Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/meritaid/fullreport.php]Who”>http://www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/meritaid/fullreport.php)
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<p>xiggi: I will read these. My kids are not attending schools with merit aid, so this is not my personal fight. However, I do feel much fellow feeling for posters who get shafted by FA formulas and have no other way to send their kids to college.</p>
<p>I think some of the problem with FA for URM’s is that the kids who need it most as the least informed about the process and many of the guidance counselors are uninformed as well. Bring on more Sybbies! We need her cloned.</p>
<p>Very well said mythmom.</p>
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<p>Ah, America-centrism. Not trying to hijack this thread, but it always amuses me how Americans regularly say things like “best government”, “freest country” and all kinds of stuff, without ever seeming to substantiate their claims. And that doesn’t even delve into the fact that “best” is a totally subjective metric.</p>
<p>Mythmon, as I wrote, my personal opinion is not really relevant here. For instance, it is entirely possible that I might agree with both Curmudgeon and Cedardweller. I am more interested in ascertaining correctly what happens when merit aid is increased. </p>
<p>A situation where merit aid is increased at the expense of need-based aid, but doled out to students who would (or should) be able to pay in full does not benefit anyone, especially if the merit-aid is covered by tuition increases. </p>
<p>I believe that the scholarly research indicates that, in perverse way, that is exactly what seems to happen. This may also explain why the vast number of families that are “stuc” between being too rich for any meaningful FA and too poor for not worrying about the expenses feel that they get absolutely no help as tuition keep increasing.</p>
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<p>When it comes to education since the 1960’s, our government has been far from the best and the “freest.” In fact, the performance of our students ranks between below average to almost worst in many categories, and our “free” system of education is a complete laughing stock in the terms of freedom of choice and, especially in terms of cost. </p>
<p>Happens easily when you let the know-nothing capitalists being (mis)led by a bunch of well disguised communists.</p>
<p>1of42: I couldn’t agree with you more.</p>
<p>So, do you have 41 siblings? (see winky face.) Then you’ll definitely need some aid.</p>