Should I Allow/Encourage My Little Boy To Compete In Gymnastics?

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 4:22pm

and if you are so afraid that your son will hurt you and your H, martial arts would NOT be the trigger- programs teach using your skills as a LAST resort-
your sons issues are deeper than gymnastics

the right thing to do is not let him control your life, what would happen if you didn’t get him out of bed? would he have a tantrum, stay and pout, or eventually get him out?

why are you still lifting him out of bed? that needs to STOP

i think that you have let is rocky start in life carry through and if he is antisocial in school, rude to other kids, not willing to do much in a group, his life will be hard indeed

Whatapainthisis · January 1, 2008, 5:18pm

I already stated that my son is immature and part of the reason why. There’s nothing I can do now about why he resists becoming independent, but it is happening on a timeschedule that is not convenient to adults at his expense.

On the issue of my concern about aggression, my son was never mistreated by us and he has never hit another child (other than my 17 year old daughter).

However, he has had at least 3 very unpleasant experiences with other children who manhandled him. In one encounter, I was with him at a busstop, and a little boy who had been his friend suddenly pushed him in the head and unzipped his coat. I said to the mother “Would you please tell him to stop putting his hands on my son”. The mother got belligerent, who has always been a problem and is probably the reason for her son’s aggression, said “Shutup xxx” to me at the busstop. Both children looked mortified. I am sure to this day that her little son wished that he had never did what he had. Because of her, our children do not play together anymore even though they live 6 houses away. This was 3 years ago and my son is still upset and angry about that.

Last summer, he was playing happily in the pool with a kid, and the kid starting squirting water at my son from his mouth. My son told him to stop or he wouldn’t play with him. The kid didn’t stop and I could see my son trying to get away with him, looking at him huffing and puffing in aggravation as he tried to get away.

And when he was only 4, he was backhanded by a 12 year old girl, to the point that he fell and almost hit his head on a rock.

These things may not seem terribly significant to an adult, but to a little child who was loved and cared for, to have these be his interactions with others, I can’t say that I blame my son. If the truth be told, I’m not a social butterfly either.

doubleplay · January 1, 2008, 5:24pm

whatapain, If it’s any consolation, a dear friend of mine’s son had similar experiences at a young age. He grew into a wonderful young man who is attending Emory and doing great.
What really s*cks is that when kids are really young like that, especially boys, it seems like the initiator is treated somewhat leniently by society in general- “oh, he/she is just six, what’s the big deal, have your kid grow some…” Then when the poor kid gets REALLY fed up and acts out aggressively, he’s looked at like some kind of monster. 
Spitting water at someone, whether it’s pool water, juice, whatever… is disgusting, unsanitary, and totally reprehensible. I’d have a hard time not getting into the pool, and shoving him under a few times just for good measure. Then again, I was always sort of like Rebecca deMornay in that nanny movie (when she confronted the play yard bully) when my kids were young- I talked quietly and seriously to the punks and put the fear of god into them.

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 5:31pm

A boy in a pool was squirting water at him? and you think that is damaging? kids do icky stuff all the time

i once caught blood from a dead dear, and chased a friend with it…

and boys spit water, juice, etc, so do girls for that matter- maybe the kid was in his own clumsy way trying to play, because his other friends don’t get alll freaked out by pool water

i don’t like bullies, believe me, but the three incidences you describe are so minor in the average kids life

Life is rough, its ugly, people are unkind, but if we allow someone to pull away from many human interactions out of fear from a few simple incidence, we are doing them no good

Our job is to make them stronger when those incidences happen

Your son is in second grade or there abouts- there will be games played in gym class that aren’t fair, spelling bees, group projects, group interactions that cannot be avoided

count your blessings for having only had 3 incidences that you cite- most kids have dozens of unpleasent encounters as they grow up

fights between others on a bus, two siblings arguing about a swing, an argument between a married couple at a mall

most of life is wonderful and amazing, but sometimes, ickiness happens, and we can’t run and hide from it or let it affect us so we become paralized

if those are indeed dramatic events in your kids life, believe me, those are not much at all

paying3tuitions · January 1, 2008, 5:38pm

^^Round of applause. Seriously.

From what I’ve read about bullying, the only thing that stops another child bully is a parent getting in their face and telling them to stop. Bullies only understand power and authority, and the other (bullied) little kid usually can’t summon it. WHen a parents says, “go hit him in the mouth, he’ll stop…” that’s usually not going to happen. It just makes the parent feel like he did something, when in fact the parent can go and scarey-eyeball talk the bully down to size.

So forget the other mom, trying to bring her in to intervene and correct her son who just bullied yours…Don’t entertain these two lads. Just get into the bully’s face and blast away at him. It doesn’t have to be many words. “Stop spitting. NOW.” will do just fine. The other mom is irrelevant. Let her see what her son’s actions did. Let her yell at you. You’ll have already made your statement, and that matters for your S to see (as a sideline, if you help the other boy that’s a bonus but you’re not raising him).

As for boys getting knocked around and all, they just do. Sympathize, say “what a mean kid” and change the subject. Boys are rough sometimes. Don’t set yours up to be the victim. Victims are trained and socialized as much as the doggone bullies are.
There’s stuff to read about all of this at the bookstores.

On dependency, immaturity: Having a much older sibling is a factor I’ve seen in a nieghbor family. The teenaged sib, instead of challenging, ends up nurturing even more than the tired old parents. The little boy is empowered now in ways that are hard to deal with for all, including the mom. By contrast, near-aged sibs tend to teach their sibs some boundaries and they learn they’re not always called “right” to be held and hugged no matter what. Teen older sibs (male and female) who are good-hearted just DO this. It’s loveable but the world doesn’t feel this way about every 4-year-old.

I think you need to lean way back and reflect deeply on some of his unacceptable peer social responses. When he says things you know are wrong and unhelpful to his making friends, the game is over. Take him home. End the fun. He shouldn’t be allowed to mouth off that he doesn’t want to play with someone; if he does, don’t substitute your adult presence as his playmates.

Be concerned for the verbal impact of your kid on others, as much as you didn’t like when he got physically bullied.

He needs to be driven home and told that the other boy heard what he said, and he hurt someone’s feelings so the fun is over. And to consider how to make amends to the boy he insulted.

Your boy can turn into a bully too. If not an actual bully, he could soon become a very rude, unpleasant, self-serving guy who doesn’t know when to shut up. So he WILL get hit by others in a little while, since their feelings matter, too.

Stop this spitting, now.

oldfort · January 1, 2008, 5:44pm

When my daughter was a toddler playing at a NY park, some little kid was throwing sand at my daughter. I waited for his mother to do something. When she didn’t, I sat down next to the little boy and said very quietly, “If you throw sand at her again, I will hurt you.” He got up crying and left with his mom. I didn’t see why my kid had to leave the sand box because some little kid didn’t know how to behave, and his mother didn’t know better.

There was a little boy in my daughter’s pre-school that was very disruptive to the class(throwing building blocks and pushing kids). I told the school that my daughter had the right to be in an environment that’s conducive to learning. The school gave the kid’s parents a choice of paying for an additional teacher’s aid to watch the child or withdraw from the class.

I don’t believe bullying should be tolerated and sometimes parents need to step in to make sure theirs kids do not feel threatened and unsafe.

emeraldkity4 · January 1, 2008, 5:59pm

In one encounter, I was with him at a busstop, and a little boy who had been his friend suddenly pushed him in the head and unzipped his coat. I said to the mother “Would you please tell him to stop putting his hands on my son”.

um kids play- sometimes they play inappropriately-fighting is part of play & they learn alot by working things out themselves.

I have found it is best to pick my battles and not intervene unless stitches are needed. ( modeling desired behavior works too)

[AboutOurKids.org</a> | Parenting Styles/Children’s Temperaments: The Match](<a href=“Department of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry | NYU Langone Health”>Department of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry | NYU Langone Health)
[Consistent</a> parenting helps children regulate emotions](<a href=“http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun97/signals.html]Consistent”>http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun97/signals.html)

Believe me- I know from difficult- I was convinced my D was ODD ( oppositional-defiant)and this was from teh womb- she refused to let me hold her while nursing for one.
But consistency is key- they need to know what to expect.

When she didn’t, I sat down next to the little boy and said very quietly, “If you throw sand at her again, I will hurt you.”

that is totally inappropriate to make threats to a little kid.
Bully much?
What you could have done was say that throwing sand towards people wasn’t good- but he could move this way and do it.
You have to provide a acceptable behavior, instead of just expecting elimination of a behavior.

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 6:13pm

“There’s nothing I can do now about why he resists becoming independent, but it is happening on a timeschedule that is not convenient to adults at his expense.”

That is so not true- our job is to help them become independent all their lives they are under our roofs- there is no start or stop time- if he had some road blocks, well, he had some roadblocks- imho, its time to catch up and press forward

So, yes of course there are many things you can do NOW to foster independence,

When would be the right time then, if not now?

Whatapainthisis · January 1, 2008, 6:40pm

I’m sorry, but this boy is on the football team and about 15 pounds bigger than my son. First he walked up and unzipped my son’s coat. My son stared in shock, and then the kid put the palm of his hand on my son’s forehead and pushed. My kid stood there in shock. The mother continued to gab on her cell phone, ignoring the whole thing. I finally asked the mother (who was much bigger than me and known to bully her husband and children at the busstop) to politely tell her son to stop putting her hands on my son. She responded with “Shut up xxx”. Her son was looking to fight and I’m not about to stand there and let him get the crap beat out of him. What kind of mother would do that?

As for the pool spitter, he was playing nicely until the spitting started. I think that my son acted appropriately by telling him to stop and then discontinuing to play with him.

And as for the 12 year old who backhanded him, this is a close family member who used to beat the crap out of my bigger daughter who was the same age. She was not a violent person and basically took it while the mother stood by. This kid then went on to hit my little son. Again, nothing was really done. Her mother seems to always write this off as “She’s a child. She has ADHD.”, and I’ve not wanted to write off a child. Things came to a head when at 16, she hit my daughter with her purse with a cellphone in it, and her mother and I agreed to cut off contact between the children. This to me did not really solve the problem. While she has has not hit my children recently, it did not change the nature of the girl, who is now 17 and still sees violence as a solution. Whenever she is around, we have to watch her like a hawk. She has also resorted to “more benign” things like telling my son that his face is lopsided and that he is wearing floods. I stopped the commentary as soon as it began, but the fact is that as a close family member, my son gets the message that he has to continue to endure a girl who has been abusive to him. (Although it is very infrequently). Short of completely estranging myself from her mother, I don’t know what else to do.

Now look, when I was a kid, I was an alpha female, and that would have been the day that I let some kid do this to me without smacking them. And my husband was a thin asthmatic who got the crap kicked out of him until he started lifting weights when he was a teen. And he still feels bad about his childhood for it. Now he is a powerlifter, and believe me, when he thinks of people hurting our son, he says things to me like “If some kid punches my kid, I’m going to go punch his dad!” and I have to calm things down. Back in the 70’s, people did not call the police either over stuff like that, but they do now.

To put it bluntly, my son could be a target. My son wears glasses, he is about 15 pounds lighter than other boys his age, and he has a heart valve problem, and his feelings get hurt easily. This is why it is important to me for him to be physically active, to be good at physical things, to maximize his intelligence, and for him to be respected by his peers for these things. The valedictorian of my daughter’s class was the lead in the plays, in band, and was not the most masculine guy. And nobody ever beat him up.

Whatapainthisis · January 1, 2008, 6:42pm

As an addition, I don’t consider fighting to be playing. Pretend fighting, yes. I don’t consider actual fighting as a form of play. I consider it to be assault, and my kid shouldn’t have to put up with it. I’m not teaching him to grow up and use violence as a form of interaction with people. However, I do understand that self-defense can be necessary, and likely will enroll him in a course later.

Whatapainthisis · January 1, 2008, 6:50pm

Also, I mistated the following “There’s nothing I can do now about why he resists becoming independent, but it is happening on a timeschedule that is not convenient to adults at his expense.”

What I meant to say was “There is nothing that I can do now about why he resists becoming independent, but it is happening, but not on a timeschedule that is convenient to adults at his expense”.

This reminds me of a situation where my son’s teachers have become so focused on preparing kids for these tests to be given in the 4th grade, that there is no longer any care for childhood. My son sits on a bus, sits in class, sits in the lunchroom, sits in class some more, sits on a bus again, and then is expected to come home and sit and do 1-2 hours of homework. And when my son does not want to comply, I hear “We have to get them ready for the standards!” Where the heck is my son’s childhood in all of this? The standards are supposed to be there for the kids, not the kids there for the darned standards.

paying3tuitions · January 1, 2008, 8:42pm

I agree that raising a boy according to his academic and creative talents provides him a central core so he is less of a victim/target/magnet for bullies.

Of my 2 sons, both small and verbal, both used a lead strength to survive. The oldest counted on his wit, the youngest on his ability to make and keep friends. And both used their intelligence to speak up for themselves and not get pushed around. The limits of their intelligence was defined by religious teachings/moral teachings, to emphasize kindness and not doing what was hateful to themselves to other kids. Most kids know what they DON"T like done to them, so it’s easier to talk in negatives, than to define how they wish they’d be treated. “Be nice” to someone else is vague. “Don’t make fun of their clothes” is specific. So to restate the Golden Rule, instead of saying “Do unto others as you’d have them do to you,” for kids it is easier to define, “What is hateful to you, do not do unto others.” (taught with specifics of course, not thees and thous

Between ages 10-12, it got back to me after-the-fact that each of my S’s had a playground fight where they hit back at a longtime verbal tormentor. I was always sad about those, but my H. also short, remembered them from his youth and said sometimes one punch just stops all the hazing.

In today’s school climate, you can’t tell your kid to punch the bully, but if he ever does, don’t criticize him excessively for it. He probably HAD to do it to make him stop (I’m talking about same-sizers, here, obviously not those big poundage differences. I truly understand the difference.) I don’t understand it, but since I never forbade them from hitting (it just wasn’t on my mind), I guess they just finally hit the kids who tormented, teased and so on ad nauseum. I wanted to tell them they were wrong, but my H was adamant that they had done the right thing in their situation. He knew boy culture and I didn’t. Although we never told them what to do, when we heard one had finally punched the same-size bully in the face (who bullied another boy, too), H said, “Good. I’m glad you did it.” We had quite different responses, and I didn’t disagree. Now I think my H was correct. Glad I held my tongue that day.

My boys weren’t the most popular leaders, but they weren’t the victims, either, despite small statures. They are roaring talented today, with good friends and big hearts. We tried out different kinds of lessons until a few things “stuck.” Eventually we found in h.s. the schedules of the athletic coaches forced them to choose between performance and athletics, which was sad esepcially for my S who liked soccer. He had to give up soccer, although within the same year was in a film where a soccer scene was filmed, so that’s funny justice.

I’m proud my boys each held their own and today do what they need to do and enjoy life very much. Followup on the nastiest bullies from their elementary classrooms showed that they didn’t amount to anything, and lost popularity in h.s. when the others figured them out.

A key thing is the ability to make some friends in a room, so your kid is not perceived by peers as without a support group. Bullied kids are always isolated. We all know the bully is a coward and crumbum every time, so they seek to pick out the weakest link to pummel.

Just to be able to make and keep classroom friends is itself a protection against bullying.

There are many books written about bullying. It is a huge concern nationwide. I’m only suggesting you zoom in on the chapters about ensuring you’re not setting him up to become the victim, because now is the age to make sure you’re giving him some good responses, good self-esteem, good inner core.

That was why I was so concerned, above, that he learn very soon not to insult others publicly. He’s going to need school friends. It’s not just him against the world. Playdates might be as valuable as talent lessons, if that’s a possibility.

FInally, one of the best workshops I ever attended was by a specialist in gifted education who urged every parent to list their child’s annoying characteristics. THe list sounded like this: stubborn, immature, flighty, tearful, difficult, argumentative… (there was a room full of parents).

Then she had the group rename every adjective into a positive adult version of the same childlike behavior pattern. So, for example, “stubborn” became “confident”; immature became spontaneous; flighty=imaginative; tearful=compassionate; difficult=courageous; argumentative=stand up for others.

I don’t know why but this gave me a lot of courage to view my S as a work-in-progress and to realize he’d grow have many years to grow up. My job as a parent was to guide each of the negative childish traits into positive adult character attributes. It didn’t happen all at once, but after a decade I could almost draw a roadmap on each of these negatives. The activities you put him in DO make a positive difference, and I commend you for thinking so carefully about them.

Best of luck to you and your family.

doubleplay · January 1, 2008, 9:00pm

The “standards” have become the curriculum around here. Nice in some ways (kids learn how to take tests and answer MC questions correctly), but aren’t educated, and for the most part are miserable as are parents- stressed, anxious, and everything about school is basically… not about learning and development. This is the new wave of the future, unfortunately, get used to it.

WAPTI, you have your hands full and none of us is walking in your shoes, so don’t feel the need to defend yourself or come back to our inept responses. I went through a terrible time with my oldest when he was in early childhood(pulmonary problems) and I will NEVER forget the attitudes of those, some in my own family, who somehow thought they knew better even though they had no idea. The doctor said, “you need to keep him from getting viruses until his lungs are developed”… (this was after RSV, and several collapsed lung/ICU/intubation episodes), and we had the all knowing relatives tell us, “you know, you are being overprotective…” Fast forward to high school, the kid played contact sports and was as healthy as a horse. He just needed some time to develop.

Point is, you are doing the right thing asking, and it shows you are a good mom and loving parent. YOU KNOW what’s best, but it helps to get a little input every once in a while.

But never let bullies push your kid around. It’s a losing battle. I know. I had a kid who would deck someone, easily. Problem is, he’d be the one to get in trouble for it. Don’t let it get that far.

doubleplay · January 1, 2008, 9:04pm

I cross posted with pay3tuitions, and her post is excellent.

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 9:05pm

The 3 events mentioned we bad, agreed, HOWEVER, they are NOT life altering, UNLESS you allow them to be…part of a bullies power comes from a person losing who they are

my D was bullied, mean girl stuff, and it would have been so easy to shrink as a person, but she didn’t

as for being respected by his peers, if you look at the val you mentioned, he did things with others, worked in a team environment- (band, play) and was social

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 9:11pm

there is a balance between waiting for a kid to physically develoe and catch up and his emotional and social development

they don’t always run in tandem, but in spurts and we need to know when to say, mommy doesn’t do that for you anymore, you can do it yourself

mafool · January 1, 2008, 9:51pm

Paying3tuitions-

That last post of yours is just splendid! I wish I had known you when I was first trying to figure out how to parent a boy in this culture so that he could become a good man.

~mafool

Shrinkrap · January 1, 2008, 9:53pm

Whatapain, your threads sure are popular.

calmom · January 1, 2008, 10:47pm

I just want to say that I think you are doing the best you can – please disregard the negative posts you are getting from a parent who has not raised a son, much less a son like yours, so literally does not have a clue.

I am glad that my own kids were not the type to whine or seek a lot of attention to me, but I recognize that a large part of it is inborn personality type – and while as a parent you want to guide your child’s development in appropriate ways, there is not much you can do to change your child’s basic personality or temperament. My 2 kids certainly are very different from one another.

My son, by the way, was like yours in one respect – he was often quite hostile to other kids and would even hide in his bedroom and tell his sister to say he wasn’t home when some kids in the neighborhood would come by asking if he could come out and play. He did have some friends or buddies growing up, but until he was in middle school he pretty much only had one friend at a time. He did become far more sociable after adolescence and for the past 4 years has worked (very successfully) in jobs that require a lot of contact with many people and good people-skills. Some of it was his own need to mature and develop social skills, and I think some of it was that it all became easier when his peers were more mature and predictable in their behavior.

I think you are making good choices and asking the right questions. Obviously you need to balance between giving your son the nurturing and support that he craves and also encouraging him to grow and develop increased confidence and improved social skills.

citygirlsmom · January 1, 2008, 10:52pm

guess that post referred to me…fine and dandy

I didn’t raise sons, but that doesn’t meen what I said doesn’t have some validity

The OP HERSELF said she didn’t want her sweet gentle child to learn martial arts because he might use it on them

That tells me she fears her own 8 year old boy and that to me says a whole lot indeed

Should I Allow/Encourage My Little Boy To Compete In Gymnastics?

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