My son is a 7th grader and tested into Algebra I. He had been requesting “harder math” since second grade. He was bored in his grade level math classes. He independently studied for the placement test over the summer because he was motivated to get into a higher level of math. He is happy with the increased difficulty of the class, but still finds it easy. He has an A+ in the class. Socially, he doesn’t interact much with the 8th graders in the class because he is intimidated by them. There are no other 7th graders in Algebra I at his school.
I used to teach gifted kids and was one myself. I didn’t have any accommodations until I got to high school. School was mind-numbingly boring up until high school because I was never challenged. I wouldn’t wish that on any kid. Six to seven hours a day of sitting in one’s seat with no intellectual stimulation is a type of torture. I always found math easy and got top marks in my high school. When I got to university, I struggled because I had never really had to work to understand math concepts. It’s important to challenge children academically (but not overstress them) so that their minds continue to grow and learn. If your son(s) are asking for more challenge in math, I would certainly give it to them.
If it’s the kid who wants to be stimulated and has the ability to skip the to the next level, by all means they should.
If it’s for the self-gratification of the parent (based on OP’s posts that’s what it appears like), then it is not a good idea. And my personal experiences as an Asian parent surrounded by rather aggressive parents in a South Bay school district makes me think that the OP wants to keep up with other families of that ilk.
@Hamurtle You absolutely nailed it. I noticed the same thing.
The only caveat I would add is the OP should google “Palo Alto suicides” or look at this link from my kids’ high school: https://lps.lexingtonma.org/Page/8714. The choice isn’t just about burning your kids out. The choice is truly life or death.
@SwimmingDad funny you mentioned Palo Alto-I graduated from Gunn High School ages ago and back in my day 4 AP classes in 4 years was plenty rigorous. Nowadays if you have 4 APs a year you are considered a slacker.
Oddly enough the other high schools in the area (Saratoga, Lynbrook, Monta Vista, Mission San Jose) have the same craziness with the AP arms race, but suicides are rare. I wouldn’t doubt a high amount of mental issues in those schools, but Asian families absolutely do not mention mental problems, as it’s a great source of shame.
My son graduated from one of the schools listed above but never pulled any all nighters and insisted on getting his 8-10 hours of sleep. He did have one of the more rigorous schedules in his graduating class but didn’t get the 4.5+ GPA and didn’t care. He did way better in his history classes (A’s and A+) than STEM classes and I was fine with that. Which makes me a lousy Asian parent no doubt. I joke around with him about how if I was more of a tiger parent he would be at Cornell instead of ‘settling’ for WashU.
DON'T move a kid up in order to take more APs down the road, or for some pre-conceived notion of what will look good.
DO consider moving a kid up if they are acing their current level, are bored, and are chomping at the bit for more acceleration. Or consider outside courses that will stimulate them.
You never know. It sounds like he loves school and prefers studying so that could work out well for him. I have a friend who has 3 very bright kids. The third has come to despise math and just generally a bit burnt out in 11th grade from having been pushed since 7th. The first loved it and went on to study mathematics in college.
One of the risks of taking Alg I in MS is that you may actually be getting Alg I “lite” and the kid then gets hammered in Alg II when he/she is expected to be ready for more complex topics and doesn’t have the foundation. One of my kids had a pre-Alg class in 5th grade taught by someone who had taught HS math and had led many math MS teams to national championships. (Even now, S says she was the toughest math teacher he ever had – and she taught him excellent work habits.) When he got to a 6th grade STEM program, the Alg I teacher was not happy the previous teacher had taken this group of seven kids so far ahead of her regular curriculum. (But we were happy about it; he was in the last cohort that got the real, deep Alg I, and it carried him in good stead through the math beyond that.)
This S desperately needed the challenge and had demonstrated it repeatedly and consistently. The GT programs he attended recognized this, had dealt with it before, and he was able to take many post-AP calc and CS classes while in high school, at at STEM HS programs, with his age peers. His 8th grade math class was a one-year combo of Alg II/PreCalc/Trig, and even he hit a bit of a wall there. He started calc at 13 – and we were really thankful he didn’t have to go to the flagship to accomplish that. (His AP BC Calc, DiffEq, Lin Alg and Complex Analysis classes were all taught as one semester courses; that was a good pace for him and he didn’t hours studying.) He majored in math, took grad CS courses in UG and is successfully launched doing what he loves. But he has been eating, breathing and teaching himself this stuff since he was in kindergarten. He is NOT typical. And he didn’t attend the highest ranked school to which he was admitted.
My other S, who is also an excellent student, had Alg I in 7th, but with a teacher who had not taught HS math. HUGE difference in quality of education. He really struggled in Alg II – and even at a selective admit IB program, the teachers said that the kids weren’t adequately prepared for Alg II. To this day, this S thinks he stinks in math, despite high 700s in math and 5s on APs.
The quality of the teacher and the depth of the course are what is key. Don’t accelerate for the prestige. If your kid has to spend hours studying math, acceleration is not a friend.
Gunn is known for being brutally competitive. Let your kid breathe, unless he/she is they type that needs math like oxygen.
@Zhoumingyi - If your kids can handle the upper level math, then let them do it. Not all kids can handle this - but some can.
And IMHO, taking a lot of AP classes in HS can be a very good idea. My youngest son took advanced math in middle school, and a ton of AP classes in HS - while playing 2 sports - which made him a “Freshman with Sophomore Standing” his first day in college. He graduated in 4 years with a Masters in Engineering. And a big part of that was the advanced math classes he took in middle school.
BTW - I agree with MYOS1634’s comment about class path… My son did run out of advanced math in 12th grade. He was supposed to be able to take multi variable, but not enough other kids signed up for it. So he took computer programming and AP Stats. Good luck!
I would say first look at what their high school math trajectory would be.
If they do Alg 1 in 7th, Geometry 8th, Alg 2, 9th, Pre-calc 10th, Calc AB? BC? 11th and then Calc BC ?Multivariable in 12th? DOes your HS offer that? or would they have to go to the local community college? Would that be logistically feasible?
If this question had been asked before the end of the first quarter grading period, I might have a different answer. D20 is a “mathy” kid - always has been - and tested into Algebra 1 in 6th grade. We declined and she took the class in 7th. For her, it was the right decision. She was bored in her 6th grade math class (and ended up bored in Algebra 1, geometry and Algebra 2 with very high As in the classes); she was one of the older kids in her grade so that, combined with the fact that her school had a curriculum that focused on understanding concepts rather than memorization, gave her the cognitive abilities to handle it, and there were enough 7th graders taking the class so that she wasn’t the odd ball out. Also, her school was K-12 so we did not run into the problem of not being able to keep the progression. So now she is a sophomore taking a honors pre-Calculus and continues to do well. But she has no desire to major in anything math related, so now she is trying to figure out where to go next as there is no real reason why she would need AP Cal BC. During her junior and senior years, her options include two of: AP Cal AB, AP Cal BC, AP Stat, and something called “quantitative literacy.” Her school mandates that AB be taken before BC (but she doesn’t want to take BC anyway so that’s a moot point).
Said all that to say this, if you have a child who enjoys math, is good at math, has the cognitive abilities to handle the class, wants to be in it, and has the support of the school, then I would say go for Algebra 1 in seventh grade. HOWEVER, in this case, the student is halfway through the year. That is why my answer would be different. Let him finish the year where he is. It won’t hurt him as even if he doesn’t take Algebra 1 until 8th grade, most high schools will let students double up with Algebra 2 and geometry. D20 has several students in her class who did this and will go on to take BC. Maybe he can even supplement next semester with some Algebra 1 work and take that class in summer school.
It’s not a race and you don’t win a prize if you have the most APs. At D’s school, good students go to good schools, and the ones who take a few APs in core classes that interest them (one or two in each of math, science, history, English, and perhaps a foreign language) end up at the same schools as those students who take full schedules of APs.
Middle schools that do this do not make sense. Students who take algebra 1 before 9th grade should be presumed to be stronger-in-math students. So if there is any difference in algebra 1 offered in 8th grade or earlier, it should be in the opposite direction (honors or enhanced or some such).
The only reason the school districts may do this is that they may allow too many parents to push their kids more advanced in math than the kids really should be. Instead of saying “no”, or letting the kids struggle in algebra 1 taught the non-watered-down way, they degrade the educational experience for those kids who are appropriately in algebra 1 before 9th grade.
Our school system went through a period where they tried to get 90% of kids through Alg I in middle school – in part because the STEM magnet was doing it so effectively. It didn’t work out well, and the pendulum has swung the other way – now getting into the Alg sequence early is almost impossible.
I spent most of S2’s freshman year of HS having him work in Jacob’s Algebra I while he was taking Alg II, because the Alg “lite” was so unsatisfactory. His Alg II teacher attended MIT and knew what they should have covered.
S1 and S2 were only two grades apart, but the difference in pedagogy during that time was HUGE.
@CountingDown the same thing happened with my girls though they are 4 years apart. For my eldest at the same school my 8th grader is at now the entire class did algebra 1 in 8th grade and depending on how they did was what class they started high school in and what level. Now for my current 8th grader all the kids do prealgebra in 8th grade.
They have the same teacher in math for 7&8th grade. She felt my daughter and several other kids were very capable of doing algebra 1 this year but the school said just 10 kids didn’t justify a class so no go. At that point I accepted that my daughter was going to take algebra 1 in 9th grade. Only then I learned that they switched to math 1, 2, 3 so instead she will start in math 1. Then the 8th grade teacher said she is going to have an after school math class for the students who are interested. Right now I know my daughter stays after one day a week for extra math but I’m not yet sure if that will work for math 1. The high school decided that math 1 would not be offered as an honors class so pretty much all the 9th graders take math 1 college prep.
What do the math teachers, gifted coordinator (whatever title) and guidance counselor suggest?
It is the rare gifted kid who needs extreme acceleration, but those who do will thrive with it. Some kids already have the knowledge and skills to move ahead, others may get A’s but would do better sticking with 8th or 9th grade algebra. I know of a girl who did well with the acceleration and did a college math course by senior year. The gifted coordinator in our district (I was on parent committees) also said there were some kids who took 8th grade algebra and then did it as a HS freshman. They found that kids need a firm foundation to do well in later math classes. Getting an A without much time/effort is vastly different than spending a lot of time and effort. If you are forcing your child to do massive amounts of work then they just don’t get it and would be best off taking an extra year before tackling algebra et al.
Repeat- find out the advice of those in the school.
Do not push. Those that forge ahead are not being pushed, they are not being held back. We all like to think our kid is smart/gifted. The vast majority are not gifted, despite parents being medical doctors, PhDs and the like. My son is genuinely gifted but he also had the time to be a kid. Sure, we could have pushed every opportunity on him but it wouldn’t have worked. Do not get sucked into any prestige things either- no one cares.
@Mom2Girls2 : surely there are at least 24 kids who could be in Math1honors?
See with the PTA and coordinate with the ptas from the other middle schools. If enough parents request (and plan to go to the district if need be) there can be action but you need to act quickly.
This could have an impact on the students’ ability to get into STEM programs down the road, and even selective college (calculus won’t be expected if the HS doesn’t offer it -although once in college with kids who took calculus honors or AB all these students without it will be at a disadvantage. However stem programs and most top 60 Universities will expect honors classes in core subjects, especially math and English.)
At my public school in Massachusetts (yikes, those schools in CA sound really competitive!) one class of around 24 students (240 total in the grade) take Algebra I in 8th grade. A good number, but not all, move directly into Geometry in 9th grade. That’s the only acceleration path at our middle school. For those students who take or need to re-take Algebra I in 9th grade, they can double up in 10th grade with Geometry and Algebra II if they hope to get to Calculus in high school.
@Mom2Girls2 is not the OP, so let’s not confuse the issue. If someone other than the OP has a question about his/her situation, a new thread should be started.
@Mom2Girls2 Watch the Math 1/2/3 curriculum carefully. My district made that change a few years back and it has been a disaster. (Though it has been a huge plus for private tutors.) Kids will randomly move from topic to topic and, depending on the teacher, they may not understand or be taught the connection. Also, you will find that they will be out of synch for standardized testing and need to do some extra studying. We are in year five of this math sequence in our district and only in the last year have things settled down a bit.
Out of a class of 650, approx. 50 were permitted to take AlgebraH in the 7th grade and GeometryH in the 8th grade. (same as the HS curriculum) The school does not even show that this super accelerated class exist on their website to avoid parents asking for their kids to be put in it. After my daughter’s cohort went through, they increased the test scores to get in because the bottom 10% was struggling.
I would only support acceleration if the school 100% recommends it and your kid loves math/comes easily.
**She ended up back in the regular course of math because she attends a special science/dual enrollment program that started everyone with Algebra I & II in 9th, Geometry in 10th grade but she has a very firm foundation in the fundamentals which made all subsequent math classes in HS relatively easy for her.