<p>To the OP…our daughter’s college might very well be viewed as one of those private schools that is expensive but not top 20. The thing we remembered throughout the process…DD was going to college, not us. Like the OP, we were in the position to pay a significant amount of money out of MY current earnings for our kids to go to college. That being said…we didn’t put a criteria onto the college other than it met DD’s criteria for majors, ECs that she wanted to pursue in college and overall opportunities for her learning. Many folks here probably have never heard of DD’s private school and to some that would mean that it is a no name school with a high price tag. I will say…we were VERY happy with what our DD got out of her four years of schooling…a double major in two very challenging fields (engineering and biology) and many opportunities which afforded her the chance to do what she is doing now (Peace Corps…a competitive post grad option). </p>
<p>BTW…our daughter’s SAT scores were lower than the OPs. Life didn’t end.</p>
<p>Forester17, kudos to you and your daughter. You’ve got a great plan of action and all of us are looking forward to hearing that she’s got great options next spring!
calmom, I’ve gotta say that I’m a little miffed to have my posts on this thread interpreted as meanness. In answering the OP’s question, I did say I believe there should be a retake in order to improve her chances at these highly selective schools. If her score is higher her chances will be better - period. Maybe she’ll get in with her terrific 2100-plus score, and I hope she does. However, 660 Math is, depending upon the source you use, either at the 25th percentile for first-year students (according to collegeboard), or below it (according to JHU’s 2009-2010 CDS and Emory’s 2010-2011 CDS). 75 percent of attending freshmen are going to have higher math scores. And the applicant pool’s scores are often slightly higher than those for attending students.</p>
<p>Really - we’re all answering the OP’s question with our own opinions and experiences. Why can’t we disagree without one side or the other necessarily being mean? Jeez.</p>
<p>Minor correction. I think you mean the “Accepted” students scores are generally higher than the attending student’s scores. The overall applicant pool is generally lower.</p>
<p>Agree with all of this morning’s posts. I’ve also been reading other threads where it’s been pointed out that some schools (U MD, for one, IIRC) is waitlisting more students, offering spring admision or participation in a “freshman connection” program based on what appears to be their standardized test scores:
And while yes, the OPs daus test scores would likely be fine for UMD, that isn’t the point.</p>
<p>Thus, as frazzled so succinctly said, retaking the SAT to (hopefully) bring up the Math score would be with the goal of (hopefully) improving chances at the highly selective schools. Yes, calmom’s dau got into a top school with significantly lower SAT scores, but a lot has changed in the past 5 or so years since her dau was admitted to Barnard. And yes, the student’s whole application is important (ECs, community service, leadership, essays, etc), we know. But to imply that the suggestions by posters here that the OPs dau should consider retaking is somehow a reflection on the parents angst, rejection fears or goals/dreams is unnecessarily speculative. It is insulting, without merit and inflammatory.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to catch up on most of this thread.</p>
<p>I can’t understand why someone would say it was “mean” to advise the OP that it would be good for the daughter to take the SAT again. That just doesn’t make sense. I think one of the problems with the online world is that some people are unable to look at situations other than through the cloudy lens of their own personal bias and disappointments. </p>
<p>The OP obviously has a very bright daughter and one who, understandably, isn’t crazy about taking the very lengthy SAT again. My kid was the same way. I can’t tell you how many test fees I paid where he never wound up sitting for the test. This included the LSAT- not once but TWICE!! He did manage to sit through 1 short and 1 long version SAT, though, and did bring his math score up about 30 points. I know other students who have improved scores a LOT- especially from early junior year to early senior year.</p>
<p>I don’t see this at all as being about the OP’s nervousness or living through the daughter. She wants to help her daughter and allow her to maximize her choices. As oldfort said, my daughter (now a 3rd year grad student) has thanked me for some of the things I “made” her do in high school that wound up really paying off. Not dropping AP Calc was one of them!</p>
<p>Things got a bit hot in this thread. In all fairness, it should be noted that Forester’s description of his own situation changed markedly over the course of the conversation. </p>
<p>In the first post, titled “Should I make my child retake the SAT I?”, he states the problem as “I’d like to see the Math score go up some, but I’m not sure it’s worth pressuring her. Should I force her to retake or leave it alone?” As the conversation progressed, his stance evolved to a much softer position - “suggesting a retake” and “encouraging a retake.”</p>
<p>So lets not jump on others, who surely responded to what they read with best intentions. My own reaction would have differed greatly depending on which Forester I was addressing.</p>
<p>In fairness, the OP softened his/her wording, in response to several posts, within 2.5 hrs of his/her original post, indicating that they might suggest or encourage an SAT retake. Yet here we are, 4 days later, with some posters still harping on words like “force” or “make” as if the OP was some emotionally abusive parent who was living vicariously though his/her daughter. Give me a break. </p>
<p>Frequently a poster will use a word that perhaps wasn’t their intent, but posters latch onto it and take them to the cleaners. Whenever a poster calls their child “brilliant” or uses some such superlative they are commonly flogged. Maybe we should give the OP the benefit of the doubt and not tar and feather them for wording that may not have been their intent?</p>
<p>jym - I’m suggesting that you all stop tarring and feathering everyone! I read the thread, and everybody seems to be responding with their best advice. So why are you guys throwing stuff at each other? Why not give each other the benefit of the doubt?</p>
<p>That would be lovely, MisterK. When you’ve been around these boards as long as many of us have, some patterns tend to emerge, and posters respond. I have defended the OP because I believe the OP asked a fair question, but perhaps may have regretted the initial wording of it. If the OP or other posters are unfairly accused of having ulterior motives that there is NO INDICATION that they do, those posts are likely to be challenged, as well they should. I think the OP has done a marvelous job of remaining diplomatic in the face of some unnecessarily unkind implications.</p>
<p>Indeed! Many, if not most, of the most competitive schools have seen their acceptance rates plummet by a third in the last 5 years. Many students, perhaps encouraged by their parents, are today retaking their SAT/ACT tests, shoehorning in more extracurriculars, and applying to more colleges. If everyone around you is doing this, you’re at a severe disadvantage just doing what worked for an older sibling 5 years ago.</p>
<p>jym - It’s true, I’m kind of new to these boards. Probably there are some long-standing conflicts that move from battleground to battleground (thread to thread). I was just taking this thread at face value, probably naive on my part.</p>
<p>To me, this is really your answer. If you think she has been working hard enough to earn, or to think of it another way, to live up to, your commitment, then I think that her decision to study for the SATII is one that should be respected.</p>
<p>I think that a lot of good information about whether or not kids score higher on the SATI has been given. That should certainly be food for thought, considering all the other stuff she has on her plate. Since money isn’t an issue, her concern that she won’t have enough time for it all should be the primary question. She does, after all, need sleep to do well. If you have no reason to think she could be working harder than she is, then I think you should let it go.</p>
<p>As I mentioned upthread, my D will be retaking the SAT in March. It may interest some of you to see our thought process about this, for what it may be worth. Let me start by saying that we well realize she got an excellent overall score already. Her score from the January test: CR-800, W-800, M-710. OK, why would anybody want to retake a 2310? Here’s the thought process:
She strongly feels she can do better on the math portion–was getting significantly better scores on M in sample tests. Is annoyed that she doesn’t think the score reflects what she can do.
She is looking at highly selective schools. While the CR and W are in the top 25% at these schools, the M isn’t, and at some is near the bottom of the middle 50%. Most, if not all, of these schools superscore.
She doesn’t mind taking standardized tests (much), and will take it again in March, only prepping again for math (and probably not that much–just some more sample tests).
Her brother got a higher score, including an 800 in math. I’m not sure how much of a role this plays in the decision, but it probably is part of it.</p>
<p>I would say that I don’t consider it *essential *for her to retake, but we and she agree that it is *reasonable *for her to do so.</p>
<p>^Given that all SAT scores are +/- 30 or 40 points there’s always a decent chance that the scores in at least one section will go up without any additional studying. With superscoring this can only be an advantage. I’m not a big fan of kids taking the SATs over and over trying to hit one magic number, but I think that a second try benefits most kids without spending a lot of additional time on it. Both my kids had modest games on at least one section.</p>
<p>My son would have taken a 35 ACT composite over, just because he knew he could do better. He took his ACT for the first time last June, after taking a grueling 8 APs through 3 weeks of May, which was then followed by prep for the SAT IIs with the ACT the following weekend. While he got a perfect 36.0 score, we knew that either exhaustion, a rushed timetable or an off day could have resulted in a handful of sloppy mistakes.</p>
<p>Sometimes it’s not what everyone else considers good enough, but what you personally know you are capable of doing.</p>