Your parent are acting really nutty and off base. However, if you can study for subject tests and get higher scores, that will help your application. 780 is close to perfect. I would focus more on other subjects if you have lower scores in them.
Thanks @skieurope. Any admissions folks on CC know how AI is calculated and if subject tests play a role?
It’s a question that deserves its own thread as opposed to derailing this one.
@Southoftheriver it is not a continuous variable. Using what was disclosed in the Harvard case, the likelihood of moving from a 2 to a 1 rating by increasing from a 780 to 800 is very low. Harvard themselves say that “ Professor Card’s statistical analysis shows that the students most likely to be admitted to
Harvard are those that do well across the profile and school support ratings, rather than merely excelling on just one rating.” This is what most posters are saying. Increasing the SAT Math 2 isn’t likely to impact admissions. It is more likely that the other dimensions will be the deciding factor. Getting in on academics alone requires WAY more than an 800 on the test.
As others have said, this is completely false information. Scoring an 800 or 760 isn’t going to predict how you would do in MV calc. My son completed MV with a high A before he even took the Math II subject test and only got a 760. He just completed his first semester at GaTech and got a high A in DiffEQ. It is just a standardized test. Since my son hadn’t done the math on the subject test in quite sometime so he had trouble going fast enough.
Also after you get past MIT, Cal Tech, and Stanford must of the top engineering programs don’t require subject tests.
This is all very helpful. My daughter will be taking the Math 2 at the end of this year, and as OP notes it is difficult to know how much effort/emphasis to place on subject tests. My initial thought was that subject tests play an outsized role but it sounds like this is not the case.
Here’s my PoV on Subject Tests for those colleges that require (or highly recommend) them. Everything is important, but some things are more important than others.
That said, I liken the various components of the application to the Avengers; they are all important in their own way, but there’s a reason that the guy who shoots trick arrows and the dude that shrinks didn’t go up against Thanos in Infinity War. Subject Tests represent Hawkeye. 
My daughter will need to translate @skieurope LOL. But thank you!
I would not retake a 780 at this point but with that said 10s of thousands of students get 800 on the Math II test who will be applying to top colleges for STEM and specifically engineering, just like you.
Some on CC think percentiles on subject tests don’t matter when you score in the 700s but I disagree with them. The percentile is important to put the score in perspective amongst other test takers. For example a 800 on Math II is “only” 78th percentile meaning that thousands of test takers are getting “perfect” scores on this exam. If the top score was 95th percentile than getting a 780 would be a lot more respectable amongst this high performing group.
At the end of the day, I would move on to other more important things to worry about and try to have fun in high school.
Good luck to you.
When you have repeatedly heard from different admissions officers at different schools that percentiles matter, then people will be more likely to agree with you.
As we know, students who take the math 2 subject test tend to be very good at math.
What is the basis for this statement?
Let me ask you this. How do you know a 780 is a good score? What benchmark are you using to determine if this is a “good” score?
If there are 100 test takers and 40 score higher than you, is that a good score? Percentiles matter otherwise you could make the test pass or fail. Once you reach a certain threshold, you are “good”.
By the way, why does the college board even list percentiles if they are not important? Their schedules always show percentiles right next to each subject test and corresponding score achieved.
Your parents seem well meaning but they are mistaken if they think getting an 800 on the third try is going to help with admissions. It’s more likely to raise questions about over testing. At the only places where this might make a difference—MIT and a few others—it would be an 800 in the first sitting that might make a difference (and even then largely because that 800 would confirm what’s suggested in the other parts of the app). I don’t think those schools are searching for kids who get 800s on the third try; they want kids who get good scores and move on to more important things in their lives. Your 780 is a good score.
Basing my statement and perceptions on verbal and written communications, as well as published statements, by multiple admissions staff from multiple schools. That’s my support, and because we can’t further debate on CC, I will bow out with that.
@socaldad2002 that is why the CB gives numeric scores. A 780 shows a mastery of the subject matter regardless of how many people receive the score.
@socaldad2002 a perfect score on the math 2 is somewhere in the 70s for percentile. Given the nature of the test taking pool percentiles aren’t particularly useful. And yes, this is a pool of test takers where if 40/100 score higher than you, you likely are still very good at math.
It’s not a matter if you are “good at math” it’s how good you are at math compared to your peers who are applying to the same highly selective colleges, in impacted majors (e.g. Engineering).
My only point is that you are compared on the test against your high achieving peers (percentiles). If it’s not important, than colleges would just rely on the SAT/ACT math scores and be done with it. I really can’t believe this is a discussion that percentiles don’t matter? Maybe I have a different way at looking at things?
@socaldad2002 yes, I think you are viewing the subject tests differently than admissions folks do, especially in math. They are thinking more in terms of scoring ranges, and rough thresholds, than percentiles.
When I turn in my scores, will they see what I got on the other tries? Also, I think I’ll end up taking it again…
This is commonly, but not universally, true.
You need to investigate each college to see if:
- It admits by division (College of Engineering, College of Arts & Sciences, etc.).
- It admits by major.
- How difficult it is to change division or major, or declare a major if enrolling as undeclared.
However, since engineering majors have longer sequences of prerequisites and a higher volume of course requirements than most majors, an undecided student considering engineering majors should start out following the engineering major schedule template, so as not to be behind if s/he decides to major in an engineering major.
“A 780 shows a mastery of the subject matter regardless of how many people receive the score.”
That’s probably 9 wrong out of 50 questions, which is not mastery for the MITs of the world, who are expecting 800s from Asians along with AMC scores on their app.
“How do you know a 780 is a good score?”
Agree, it’s not a good score for an Asian male who plans to major in STEM. It doesn’t mean you won’t get in, but it’s not a good score for that demographic. You would have to show other ways that you’ve mastered math, taking BC as junior and then maybe something like linear algebra or diff eq at a community college as a senior.
OP - Given Yale is your first choice, and you’ve already taken it twice, you’re probably ok with the 780. good luck!