<p>1sokker You and I are on the same page re a woman president I think. I would really appreciate having a female in the position. Not Hillary though. I laughed re Bill Clinton being the Democrats biggest asset. I didn’t read the background on it, so I am not up to snuff on the history of the statement. But I imagine Bill Clinton started the notion.</p>
<p>Hillary’s ambition didn’t help get her healthcare reform passed, so I don’t see her as historically effective in what is one of her signature causes in the race. Many New Yorkers have said that they think she has been a good senator. I am in NY and have followed her Senate years closely. To me, her record is nothing special.</p>
<p>“The republicans will bring up Hussein’s RACIST pastor!!!”
“He can’t win any large states like New York!”
“He’s too scared to debate cuz he’s an empty suit!”
“He’s out of touch and elitist to say that people are bitter!”
“He doesn’t have enough experience as a senator to be president!”
“The Clintons haven’t told me what else to say so I’ll just think of my own baseless comments! Obama is from Hawaii and only Americans can be president!”</p>
<p>Simba were you ever planning on voting democratic in the first place? If not why do you even care?</p>
<p>Tyler, did Simba say any of that, or are you just imagining it so that you can pigeonhole all non-Obama supporters into the ignoramus pigeonhole?</p>
<p>Personally, I prefer Obama to Clinton and do indeed think she’s electable, mainly because many of Obama’s victories have come in states that will not be in play for Democrats in November, while Clinton has shown significant strength in swing states. Is there a particular reason why you think that will not be a problem for Obama/that it is not a valid advantage of Clinton’s?</p>
<p>“Specially if the black guy is out of touch and empty.”</p>
<p>Why do you keep saying ridiculous things like this? How can the guy be both “out of touch” and a crazed racist because of his minister? Obama’s critics keep trying on one insulting and absurd label after another, because they are leery of using the one they really mean: black.</p>
<p>Hunt, are you accusing those of us who don’t think Obama is the best candidate for the nomination of being closet racists, or just reaching around for acceptably illogical reasons that you could blame for not everybody having bought into Obama’s message? I take a great deal of offense to the implication of your post and the incredible arrogance that you have even a slight conception of what my reasons for criticizing the man are.</p>
<p>Well, my comment was really directed at Simba, who helpfully pointed out that Obama is the “black guy,” but I do see a series of criticisms of Obama being tried on, and when they don’t seem to get any traction, a new, and inconsistent criticism is tried. The idea that Obama is an “elitist” (compared to McCain who has been sitting in the Senate for decades and who has a millionaire wife) is really nutty, as well as the idea that he is some kind of anti-white racists, or that he is a Muslim. I just can’t have much respect for the intellectual honesty of anybody who peddles those ridiculous ideas. If you think that Obama just isn’t seasoned enough to run for President, well, O.K.</p>
<p>I don’t really have an opinion on whether he is seasoned enough to run for president or not; my main criticism of him is that his message of hope and coming together will blow up in the face of the reality that Congress is bitterly partisan and his agenda and voting record is the least moderate of all 3 major remaining candidates/nominees (both Hillary and McCain are more centrist, though Hillary not by much). Many people vote for Obama because he is seen as an outsider, a person who doesn’t “play the game”, so to speak. That’s admirable, and I like the quality of not being too indebted to special interests, but I think that this message of hope that works so well on the campaign trail will fail miserably in office.</p>
<p>It’s easy to assume that people are playing the race card when in fact they are criticizing Obama’s ideas. Furthermore, the long string of different criticisms is not so much a problem of racism but a problem of Obama making injudicious choices in what he says and who he associated with. I still think the Wright thin is stupid, and still don’t take issue with his remarks in PA, but I do think both things display the kind of naivete that I worry about with Obama.</p>
<p>How is the guy who actually had to make it for himself an elitist?</p>
<p>Because he thinks that people can improve themselves, rather than being so worthless that they need to be forced to even help themselves, let alone have any productivity?</p>
<p>It’s like sports - when you are getting criticized, it shows they are paying attention and care. When all you hear is platitudes - THEY DON’T CARE, they just want to avoid unrest.</p>
<p>1of42, I don’t agree with your criticisms of Obama, but I don’t think they’re nutty. I have gotten tired, though, of the increasingly hysterical anti-Obama statements that some people have been making, and I can only think it’s because they are terribly afraid that he will win.</p>
<p>Simba, I just can’t see how anybody who is supposedly a Hillary Clinton supporter could be as opposed to Obama as you claim to be. It just doesn’t make any sense. I admit that it baffles me, which is what made me suspect that you might really be a Republican who knows the kind of beating Obama will deliver to McCain in November.</p>
<p>I’m not worried about Obama winning states that went to Hilary. Here in NY it seems like all my middle aged, middle class, white women friends who should have voted for Hillary all voted for Obama. I even have die-hard Republican friends who are voting for Obama.</p>
<p>I don’t know, hunt…I can certainly see why someone who supports Obama can be very much opposed to Clinton. Such people exist right here on CC. And though I believe Simba tends to wax hyperbolic in his criticism of Obama, but I can certainly understand many of the reasons he questions Obama’s qualifications for POTUS. I have concerns about Obama too—though I would rather see him get elected than Billary. My problem is I wish we had better choices all around. Seems to me we’re screwed this election cycle, too. SSDD.:rolleyes:</p>
<p>This gave me the biggest chuckle ever on CC. How funny how things have changed since the last elections where all the leftist pundits who roam(ed) these boards predicted an unstoppable democrat tsunami leading to an inexorable Clinton White House. </p>
<p>The lone voices who wondered how a party led by Dean, Pelosi, Reed, and their ilk would ever accomplish ANYTHING positive were quickly silenced by the sounds of knuckles pounding the sand and of fists beating their bulky liberal chests. Oh, how loud and deafening were those screams of vengeance and vindication that a reenergized and victorious Democrat Party would surely bring. Of course, that was the same idle chatter heard in the summer before the Kerry-Bush election night. </p>
<p>Thanks, I-Dad for reminding us that the only victorious candidate in the last 36 years who came from that inept cesspool was one who should never have survived the primaries and was probably the Leftist Establishment’s last choice among that “amazing” dirty dozen group who considered challenging Bush Sr.</p>
<p>After reading all of these, I’m missing Edwards more and more. And I even miss Mitt Romney, if only for his energy on the R side.</p>
<p>Just as a young person, I feel disappointed with all three of the candidates. It’s funny…I always dreamed about the day that I would be able to vote for the first time - voting for someone that I really believed in and could support as they made a huge difference…I don’t think I’m going to find that in any of the candidates.</p>
<p>Support Clinton if you mostly agreed with Bill’s policies and prefer an insider status-quo Democrat.</p>
<p>Support Obama if you mostly agreed with Bill’s policies but prefer an outsider who is untested but shows signs of being able to inspire in the way JFK could.</p>
<p>Then in November:</p>
<p>Support McCain if you prefer a moderate and sometimes maverick Republican who is more hawkish than Bush, and who still believes, in hindsight, that invading Iraq was correct, and thus may do it again in similar circumstances.</p>
<p>Support the Democrat if you mostly agreed with Bill’s policies and you prefer someone who, in hindsight, would not have invaded Iraq.</p>
<p>The Iraq war will define America for years to come, so if you feel strongly about it one way or the other, the choice should be simple.</p>
<p>The next president will face greater problems, mostly economic, than any president in history.</p>
<p>mini, I wish I could believe you, but according to the most recent Gallup Poll on this, Hillary beats McCain by several points; Obama & McCain are now dead even.</p>