<p>Don’t forget Penn State!
I happen to think that’s a “good one” too…but then again, I’m biased.
This board is really tough…</p>
<p>It all depends on how you look at this thing. </p>
<p>Just the other day I was totally surprised to learn there are actually over 600 public and 3X of that private 4 year colleges in US. So, the top 550 are in the first 25% and top 100 are in the top 5%. </p>
<p>In other words, about 95% of the 4 year college students would love to get into any one of the big ten schools.</p>
<p>With reciprocity many MN and WI students need to decide between the two schools without the slight differences in finances being the deciding factor. Minn has less geographic diversity. Minn’s business school lets a freshman in, UW’s doesn’t guarantee admission to theirs, students need to apply during their college career- a risk some students don’t want. A nice feature of reciprocity is in giving students two major public U’s instead of just one to choose from.</p>
<p>Penn wanted in to the Big Ten- not sure why they let them in… It hasn’t been all that many years there were 11 schools. But that’s only sports, not academics.</p>
<p>The schools are large enough that there is plenty of room for non-sports minded people. Even with some of the huge stadiums/arenas (let’s not forget basketball and hockey), filled with alumni and other nonstudents, only a fraction of students will attend so there are thousands NOT involved with sports. Also, once you’re admitted it makes no difference where you come from as far as a university is concerned.</p>
<p>For academics- note where the most elite schools’ grad students come from and go to as faculty. There is a lot of networking between them and the Big Ten schools (as well as with other top public schools).</p>
<p>A lot of top students go to their instate school (only some for financial reasons) and populate the honors programs, enhancing their student bodies. Most students tend to stay within their geographic region and since the flagship public schools (Big Ten) of the Midwest outrank most private schools on the east coast as well as in the Midwest there is no reason not to attend them. Ashamed? Hardly. Where Penn State fits into all of this I’m not sure, they joined us and our midwest mindset…</p>
<p>So refreshing to have a midwest based thread for a change. Sometimes I get tired of the numerous Parents forum threads debating the merits of lesser east coast colleges that fell under our radar… (no emoticons, haven’t figured them out).</p>
<p>I’d take the big east over the big 10 any day of the week.</p>
<p>Yes, I forgot Penn State. PSU is also a full academic member of the CIC which is the academic side of the Big 10 and also includes Chicago. PSU is very similar to the other B10 schools in every regard. </p>
<p>[CIC</a> Home Page](<a href=“http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx]CIC”>http://www.cic.net/Home.aspx)</p>
<p>The Big Ten is an excellent place to attend college if you want a similar Ivy-caliber education. Lower cost-of-living. Lots of nature. Lots of history.</p>
<p>You’ll just have to get used to the ridiculously cold winters (especially in Northern Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin).</p>
<p>CIC data comparisons of B10 schools. Interesting stuff</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.cic.net/Libraries/Reports/CICDataAlmanac.sflb.ashx[/url]”>http://www.cic.net/Libraries/Reports/CICDataAlmanac.sflb.ashx</a></p>
<p>A Big Ten education is not Ivy caliber. It’s a fine education, but the peer group is not similar to highly selective private schools. Is it a better value? Yes.</p>
<p>My DD would be thrilled to attend a big 10 school. We are off on a whirlwind tour of IU, Ohio State, Purdue, Ohio University, and Penn State this next weekend !! I hope we don’t hit any blizzards. Wish us luck!</p>
<p>MomofWildChild,</p>
<p>“A Big Ten education is not Ivy caliber. It’s a fine education, but the peer group is not similar to highly selective private schools. Is it a better value? Yes.”</p>
<p>Michigan, Penn State University Park, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Ohio State are all listed as public ivies.</p>
<p>[Public</a> Ivies - Everything on Public Ivies (information, latest news, articles,…)](<a href=“http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/public-ivies/]Public”>http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/public-ivies/)</p>
<p>Definition of a public ivy:</p>
<p>“Public Ivy” is a colloquialism for a state-funded institution with excellent academics. Richard Moll, author of the 1985 book on Public Ivies, defined the term to mean a public institution that “provide[s] an Ivy League collegiate experience at a public school price.” </p>
<p>While Moll originally only listed one big ten school(Michigan), among his original list of public ivies, Penn State University Park, Ohio State, Illinois, and Wisconsin were all listed in the same book as honorable mentions.</p>
<p>Since then, Greenes’ Guides has listed all of these schools as public ivies in his book The Public Ivies: America’s Flagship Public Universities released in 2001.</p>
<p>“My DD would be thrilled to attend a big 10 school. We are off on a whirlwind tour of IU, Ohio State, Purdue, Ohio University, and Penn State this next weekend !! I hope we don’t hit any blizzards. Wish us luck!” - yorkyfan</p>
<p>I hate to break it to you but Ohio University is NOT in the Big Ten. It’s also not nearly as good a school as the eleven Big Ten Universities. Use it as a safety, perhaps. Some people make that mistake about Ohio U. It bugs me because my in-laws were profs and deans at Ohio U, before they moved on.</p>
<p>Some people think Purdue is private and U of Pennsylvania is a public institution. A lot of people don’t know that Cornell University, the Ivy League school in upstate New York, is a hybrid: it’s part private and part land-grant (public) university. </p>
<p>Anyway, about this Big Ten discussion…speaking as an alum of one of those schools (I attended two of them and graduated from one) I think they’re all very good. But they’re not for everybody. Some kids will get lost at an urban campus like U of Minn-Twin Cities or a gigantic rural campus literally in the middle of nowhere like Penn State-University Park. A small private college can be the sweet spot for some kids, which has nothing to do with public vs. private or rankings by some magazine. I’d hate to have the decision driven solely by cost.</p>
<p>My D can’t make up her mind, which is driving us crazy. One day it’s “We are Penn State!” (you’ll hear that on campus), the next it’s Brown’s ivy covered walls, and the next it’s “I love little Muhlenberg!”</p>
<p>The term “public Ivy” should be abolished. I went to a Big Ten school. I recognize the excellent public universities out there like Michigan, UVA, NC, Cal, Texas etc. However, they are not highly selective private schools. They have some things that make them more desirable than said “highly selective private schools” for some applicants- strong, fun athletics being one of them- but they are not the same category of school.</p>
<p>I don’t like the term public Ivy either. A bit of a stretch I’d say. But are the top publics really that different from what are sometimes called lower Ivies (Cornell and Penn for example)? I have a friend who did UG at Mich and a PHD at Cornell. He’s taught at a couple of big tens and is now at Berkeley. He is a big fan of publics - yes because of the value…but also he says he didn’t notice THAT much difference in quality. One opinion.
I wouldn’t compare Yale or Princeton with Minnesota. But Michigan (maybe with an honors college) or UVA and Cornell? I just don’t see the huge gulf…</p>
<p>I would say schools like Michigan and Berkeley are better than the lower Ivies (Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth). Berkeley is the Harvard of the West Coast and Michigan is the Harvard of the Midwest ;)</p>
<p>MomofWildChild,</p>
<p>“The term “public Ivy” should be abolished. I went to a Big Ten school. I recognize the excellent public universities out there like Michigan, UVA, NC, Cal, Texas etc.” </p>
<p>Well, then I am glad it is not your decision. I guess I will just have to go with the opinion of the author Richard Moll, that guy that wrote the book on Public Ivies, got his masters at yale, and worked at numerous admissions offices(Cal, Vassar, Bowdoin,etc…), and just take his word for it. The problem is that you don’t know enough to formulate a complete thought on the topic. If you did, you would know that Illinois, Wisconsin, and Penn State all outrank Texas.</p>
<p>Which Big Ten school did you attend?</p>
<p>I am not one to pay a whole lot of attention to rankings. I actually believe I know quite a bit about the subject. The public universities have a pretty weak lower half of the class- in some cases a lot more than lower half. It’s just the way it is. The more selective privates do not have that. It makes a difference in the level of students that a prof has to address in many classes (except for honors, advanced seminars etc). Your overall peer group is not the same. It makes a difference. </p>
<p>You will get a fine education at a Big Ten school. I also happen to like many of the SEC schools. Just don’t pretend you are at a highly-selective private school. You aren’t. </p>
<p>jec- looking back at your older posts, you are obviously VERY hung up on rankings and I hit a nerve. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, the Big Ten is a stronger academically than the SEC. Athletics is a different story (SEC’s major advantage is warmer weather).</p>
<p>I realize the Big Ten schools tend to be “ranked” higher than the SEC schools. That doesn’t mean that, say, Georgia honors doesn’t offer a little more than regular Minnesota or Indiana. These are all big, public universities with some outstanding faculty and programs which offer research opportunities and fun athletic scenes.<br>
Just don’t go in thinking your peers (or class size) are going to be the same as you would find at Penn or Cornell. Some will be, but you are going to have to find them.</p>
<p>Not at all! As an academic, I travel in a wide circle of academics. Have taught at an Ivy and such. We greatly prize education (obviously). Yet a good portion of my esteemed colleagues, including those now faculty at HYPS and such, if you look at their resumes, many went to places that are not at all the top USNWR. Many are from foreign schools you’ve never heard of, or smaller colleges, or places like Ohio State. These are perfectly great schools, where you get a top notch education. And most of us would gladly send our child to a huge range of schools and have no interest in what everyday people call “top XX”.</p>
<p>The sad sad thing to me is that you feel you have to worry about it at all. This fear generated by a hyped societal frenzy created by a stupid magazine of all things! People that actually KNOW what goes on in universities find this ranking nonsense absurd. Look at rankings based on knowledge generation and reputation among academics, and it doesn’t look at all like USNWR.</p>
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<p>As someone who has taught at a variety of such schools, from Ivy to state, I completely disagree with this.</p>