They struggle in 9th grade math. Or they get a good teacher and catch up? Some of our 9th grade math teachers are pretty terrible though. 
I actually had my 3 youngest got tutored in 6th grade to test into algebra 1 in 7th, but it had nothing to do with their math track (a good friend who is a 6th grade teacher tutors on the side). I was told to do so with my first 2, I thought it was silly, but I was wrong. It was well known that the 7th grade pre-algebra teacher, a nice guy, was a horrible teacher, and many students needed tutors to get through it. My older kids survived without tutors, but they didn’t like the class. On the other hand, the 7th grade algebra teacher was one of the best teachers in the school system. My kids tested into algebra, and pretty much got A’s in math all through HS as well (but only 2 took BC, the others chose to stop after AB and took stat, BC is the highest course in math). I felt my younger kids had a better foundation due to their instruction.
Ugh - i take it you’re in a wealthy district - but even the best districts have troubled students.
I hate the entire - we move everyone along. We are doing a disservice to these kids.
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And here is the crux of the problem with high school math - there are not enough skilled teachers who have a degree in math. Schools cannot offer multivariable calc, linear algebra and other advanced classes if they do not have qualified teachers.
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By the way, my S23 just barely tested into the “advanced” math track in HS. After his placement test at the end of 8th grade, we received a letter from the district saying that his test score was at the very bottom of what was technically allowed to test into the advanced track, and that they did not recommend that he attempt the advanced track because they expected that he would get Cs in math or fail.
He chose the advanced track and earned As in math through high school, earned 5 on the Calc BC exam, and has had straight As in math at UCB.
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Guessing that algebra 1 for everyone in 8th grade (+1 track for everyone) had equity intentions, because middle school math placement often depended on factors other than how ready the student was for algebra 1 (e.g. parental lobbying, or lack thereof by low SES etc. parents). It was tried statewide in California for a while, then dropped because not every 8th grade student was ready for algebra 1 with high rates of failure.
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Parent of an MIT math grad. Took BC calc as a senior (school allowed EITHER AB or BC, not both). Was not in the highest math track in middle school. No need to push.
The world isn’t running out of math. Not for engineering, not for applied math, not for physics. The math arms race strikes me as absurd.
I know contemporaries of mine (late 60’s) who are making BIG money tutoring math, chem and physics as their post-career career. Their students are typically solid students who got pushed ahead back in 7th or 8th grade, are now sophomores or juniors (and the occasional senior taking AP physics and DROWNING) and their parents are throwing money against the wall. Not that there is anything wrong with tutoring. But trying to “fix” the mistake made back in 7th grade by pushing the kid ahead– ugh. The kids are anxious, the tutors try to be as approachable and kind as possible with statements like “this problem isn’t likely going to be intuitive, so we’re going to break it down into tiny, tiny steps for you to follow” but what can you do when the parents are trying to prep a “non-math” kid for a math intensive college curriculum?
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Some states (e.g. WA, IL, NC, NV, TX) have automatic enrollment in advanced math tracks (presumably +1) based on state math assessment tests: Automatic Enrollment Policies for Advanced Coursework - EdTrust
It is supposed to reduce the likelihood of good-in-math students from low SES etc. families missing the chance to take appropriately advanced math courses due to lack of parental lobbying. Of course, it is possible that high SES parents will add tutoring and test prep regimens for their students leading up to the test (grade 3 to 8, depending on the state), and there may be parental lobbying to push students to tracks higher than the ones that students can be placed by automatic enrollment.
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Not sure this is true for other high schools, but at least in our HS, math level matters for other science course selection, and each science course will determine next science courses. The kids with preAlgebra in 8th grade and algebra 1 in 9th grade are unlikely to get into higher rigor science classes.
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Agree here, but it seems that many parents do not agree, and some posters (in the other thread) seem to think that not being in the most accelerated math track is harmful for admission to highly selective colleges.
Yes, of course - and potentially those kids will not be great candidates for such admission..? But this reminds me of someone posting years ago on CC that “all” someone had to do to get into MIT was to get to USAMO. Of course the CC denizens pointed out that an option would be “just” to become an Olympic athlete of any sort by age 18 to get a nice shot at selective admission. I remember this thread because some yahoo made the claim that kids in Math Team do better on the SAT math section because of all the time spent practicing for math SATs during Math Team meetings.
I do think that “not being in the most accelerated math track is harmful for admission to highly selective colleges” because kids who do go to those colleges overwhelmingly (there are exceptions): at least at grade level, usually beyond, in all subjects, including math.
But it’s not like you can push a kid who’s not at that level, and turn them into a HYPSM student, by overriding them into higher middle-school math. That just leads to all the problems everyone’s talking about. It’s exactly the same as taking a non-athletic kid and forcing them onto a varsity sports team when they’ve never played or practiced in their life and they have little aptitude/effort once they’re there.
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Regarding high school science, it is not unusual for math prerequisites for science to be:
- Concurrent algebra 2 for chemistry.
- Concurrent precalculus for physics, AP physics 1, or AP chemistry.
- Concurrent calculus for AP physics C.
Back in the old days when I was in high school, the regular +0 progression was:
| Grade | Math | Science |
|---|---|---|
| 9 | algebra 1 | science introduction or biology |
| 10 | geometry | biology (if not taken in 9th grade) |
| 11 | algebra 2 | chemistry |
| 12 | precalculus | physics |
Students on the +1 math track had the option of taking chemistry and physics a year earlier (and usually started with biology in 9th grade, skipping the science introduction course). But students on the +0 math track could still get all three of the main sciences to prepare for college.
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This is true. All students will take all science classes. And it is graduation requirement. But if eyeing elie or great colleges, this would be at great disadvantage.
It seems Geometry at 9th grade is the bottom line here.
Yes. There are explicit equity intentions for both requiring Algebra in 8th grade for everyone in the district, and limiting acceleration to Calc AB or Calc BC in 12th grade (no multivariable, etc). At one time in the past, there were more advanced math tracks offered at the HS, and that was eliminated due to equity concerns.
In addition to the problem that some kids struggle with the +1 track, we also have the problem in our district that some kids are substantially advanced beyond the math track offered, but still have to take the math classes in the sequence. Both of my kids had multiple classmates whose parents were math or engineering professors who arranged extracurricular math instruction / math circle / math camps for their kids, as well as other kids who were very advanced in math (participating in competitions, etc), but were still required to repeat material in the same precalc and Calc classes as other kids. This can have negative consequences both for the super advanced kids themselves, and their classmates.
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I’m of the opinion that it should match your interests. I see no point in a future History major taking Calc BC - especially if they hate math. That extra math class takes away from other opportunities/classes they might take.
Now if you are interesting in Engineering -then I feel differently. Ideally it would be great to be in Calc BC.
My daughter transferred from a low-funded area during middle school. When she arrived to our current school district in 8th grade - EIGHTH GRADE - she was already ‘behind’ for the fast math track. That seems a bit ridiculous.
She ended up taking Calculus and Stats at our local community college and that seemed to work well for her.
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I hate when we see a 4.0 and Calc AB and they have a 550 in the math SAT or a 26 on the ACT - and it happens.
We are not doing kids favors.
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D’s HS had a placement test They didn’t “trust” that the middle school math/English/science/FL levels were always appropriate. You went into the track that you placed into. Students needed a B and the teacher recommendation to proceed to the next class in any accelerated track.
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Our S29s’ school is very similar. They took algebra 1 in middle school and then the high school had a test at the beginning of summer. If the student didn’t pass, then they had the option of taking a summer algebra 1 “refresher” before going into geometry. OR they could just take algebra 1 again. But the high school does offer many math classes over the summer for students that do want to accelerate.
I am not a fan of how our district sets up students on their math tracks.
They are basically put on their math track based on a placement test that they take the 1st week of 6th grade!!
It is: remedial or regular or accelerated
Remedial they put resources behind them to ‘hopefully’ get these students caught up before high school. (I really like this aspect of the program)
Accelerated- well, as it sounds. You get accelerated math education and this puts you on track to take either Calc BC (the normal accelerated path) or Calc 3 (very rare- and they actually discourage this) in the 12th grade.
(no real issues with this either- those that are not meant to be placed here usually off board to a regular or slightly accelerated track at the start of high school)
The issue- the standard track!! They set it up to where if you get placed here (in the 6th Grade!!!) that it is nearly impossible to ever accelerate above it. Not until in high school where you can possibly take online/CC courses to catch up.
If you do not take your own steps- pre-calc in the 12th is the highest you will go.
This is where I feel the inequalities come into play. Yes- a student can take measures to get ahead, but those are not always accessible to everyone for many reasons. And this has been decided for you the first week of 6th grade.
Both my S20 and D26 are total math nerds and had no issues with their accelerated path and it was the right placement for them. But we saw many of their friends that ended up being just as excellent in math as they are really struggling with the logistics involved to get into the same classes.
For me- I do not feel that they need to take away acceleration to make things more equal. They just need to have more pathways for those that progress at a different speed!!
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What is the reason for the teacher recommendation in addition to the B grade?
My old high school now lists the prerequisite for honors math (including either AP calculus course) as a B in the preceding honors course or an A in the preceding non-honors course. It looks like the grade in the preceding course is treated as the teacher’s recommendation or non-recommendation.
Just to go back to the OP- if they had more options to accelerate at different times in the process (for how it works in my district at least) then there would be less of a crazy push for students to get put into the accelerated track in the 6th grade. Students would have more of a chance to develop their math skills at an appropriate pace without the fear of forever missing out.
But to make this happen- it would cost the district $$ and other resources- so that will never happen
(free CC classes for highschoolers trying to get ahead- Summer school open to all- currently only for those that are behind…)