The title of this thread is about parents pushing … and yes, I realize there is a fine line between that and realizing an 11 year old is not the best placed to make decisions about future possible outcomes.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned on this thread but have seen spoken about elsewhere on cc, is that young students who are advanced in math may sometimes hit a wall when they do calculus at a relatively young age. I don’t know how you predict that. My kid - who for other reasons was not going to be a highly rejective college applicant - has sailed through all the math they have done (+1 at a year younger than they would normally be in their grade) and I feel we could easily have had them on a +2/3 path if based on math ability alone, but there were other factors involved. We kept on expecting them to hit a stage in math where they actually have to work at it, but they haven’t reached that yet. On the other hand, we see parents desperately looking for calc tutors for their kids in 10th or 11th and I feel - why are they there if they need a tutor so badly?
And I see both at our high school - the kids who are super achievers because that is just who they are, and those who are being pushed by parents beyond what they seem to be naturally comfortable with.
As for burnout, I am always reminded of the kid in D19’s class who got into MIT then decided to go to his safety (a not very competitive OOS flagship) because he was burnt out and just tired of grinding all the time.
You are correct and it hasn’t yet been said - there are two (IME) developmental hurdles, one for what is generally considered “algebra 1” and one for what is generally considered “late algebra 2 or precalc”. For average students, I have observed that the first of these is around age 10 and the second around age 13. You can have a VERY mathy/brilliant student who needs the developmental passing of time if they are younger than these ages.
As always, there are outliers in both directions. It’s like reading, where very few 3yo can read but nearly all 7yo can (obviously accounting for opportunity, health, etc.)
The two true math prodigies in my large extended family were NOT reading by age 7 according to their mothers. They showed extreme mathematical ability by that age (not just the party tricks of multiplying stuff to impress the friends) and could identify letters correctly, sound out a word with help from an adult, but were not reading.
I have heard anecdotally that this is not unheard of for these kids. Both were reading competently by age 10 or so. Child development is not a straight, linear line in some cases, especially for the “tail end” outliers…. I’m sure we’ve all seen the videos of kids who were labeled developmentally disabled– in some cases quite disabled- who sit down at a piano and can play Chopin from memory.
In my opinion Parents shouldn’t push for accelerated math. My kid was placed always in accelerated math at a young age (Algebra 1 in 5th grade) because the school/teacher would contact us and tell us we think you son should be taking this math class because this is where we think he would be challenged. I would always be like “you sure” I don’t want him to be isolated from his class because the classes he would be placed in for math were usually 2 or 3 grades ahead of him. It worked out for him and he exceled in the classroom and sports because it became apparent the teachers that called us to recommend it knew best.
However, we also experienced a few kids in his higher math classes same grade that parents had apparently pushed the school to put their kid in that math class for acceleration purposes and the kid did not do well in those classes.
So, if your kid should be on an accelerated math track, trust that his or her teachers will make you aware of that and encourage you to in fact place them in those classes because that is where they should be. That’s just my two cents.
This was my son! Gifted in many ways but a late reader. When he started reading, it was full adult books (think Tom Clancy!). I was concerned that he needed more math challenge but he did calculus and physics in the usual time frame at high school, majored in CS and is doing fine. He is more security-oriented and I think having mastery made him more comfortable, vs frustration with lack of challenge. That is why I think this is very individual.
I wouldn’t bet on that. In hindsight my oldest probably could have skipped a grade in elementary school. They were so bored but I didn’t realize because they never complained. It wasn’t until grade 4 that their teacher mentioned it during a parent/teacher interview. Even then that teacher didn’t make any suggestions or take any steps to refer them for the evaluation and I wasn’t aware that was even an option. I was so clueless. Not one of their elementary teachers reached out or suggested acceleration. It wasn’t until the standardized testing that all students undergo at the end of grade 4 revealed that they were gifted that I became aware that they were achieving at a much higher level than average. Even then the grade 5 teacher who reported the results was absolutely not prepared to do anything about it and basically told us if we wanted it addressed we needed to contact admin ourselves.
Oh wow. I guess we just had some great teachers. They scheduled a parent conference with us to discuss their recommendations for more advanced math placement. He attended a public school too!
Pre-calc Freshman year, Calc AB sophomore, Calc BC junior year. No MV offered at his high school for senior year. It was weird applying to colleges because he took Algebra 1 in 5th. Some schools reached out and said they don’t see Algebra 1 on transcript since only his middle school math (Alg2, Geometry, Trig) showed on HS transcript. So we had to explain it was taken in 5th grade and provide proof or make sure it was noted.
They must need to be kept busy I guess. My HS didn’t put MS courses on the transcript, even if HS level, and I doubt they’re unique. I had a grand total of zero colleges questioning that.
Sometimes people look for a particular thing and don’t use enough common sense…like a friend of mine who has a PhD in biology but the state kept returning her licensure app because she was missing a “Masters degree or higher in biology”.
My kids’ school notes on the transcript that the algebra 1 requirement was completed in middle school. It’s a California public and the CSU application (includes cal poly which recommends 5 years math) absolutely needs middle school algebra listed on the applications otherwise they are deemed as not meeting the minimum CSU requirements…regardless how far you go in math. So maybe something like that happening there.
CSU generally allows algebra 2 to validate algebra 1 that is not listed, and allows precalculus or calculus to validate algebra 1 and 2 and geometry. UC is similar except that geometry cannot be validated.
However, CPSLO requires all math from algebra 1 (including from before high school) to be listed on the CSU application to count for the bonus points for taking more than the minimum number of semesters of math. (CSU and UC both use self reported courses and grades for the application, with verification by transcripts on matriculation.)
Seems like the math progression slows down from +4 to +2 for the most advanced math students. Trigonometry is normally included in algebra 2 or precalculus, rather than being its own year long course. And the two year calculus AB then BC sequence makes little sense for the top math students who can handle all of it in one year.
Also, which colleges seemed unable to see that if a student completed algebra 2, the student knows algebra 1?
I mentioned before, when excellent schools/students do the two year AB-BC sequence, that is instead of precalculus and often also gives some MV or DEq at the end.
ETA: I see that in this case, he did take precalc, which I find odd.
That was the progression of his private high school and what they offered. He went from public school both elementary and middle school to his private HS. Didn’t hurt him a bit with college admissions last cycle. He did very well.