Should vaccinations be required by law?

[dragonmom]

<p>

Isn’t this kind of like our new “health” care – you have no choice but to “buy” it?

</p>

<p>And you are how old?</p>

[LongPrime]

<p>

Prior infection with chicken pox doesn’t protect you from shingles. Having had the chicken pox actually puts you at risk for shingles later on in life.

</p>

<p>NEW GAME: How can one substitute a few words/nouns to get the same result but different meaning.</p>

<p>Prior education with knowledge doesn’t protect you from knowledge. Having had the knowledge actually puts you at risk for knowledge later on in life.</p>

<p>Prior knowledge with education doesn’t protect you from education. Having had the education actually puts you at risk for education later on in life. </p>

<p>Prior chicken pox with infection doesn’t protect you from chicken pox. Having had the infection actually puts you at risk for infection later on in life. </p>

<p>One of the odd things with shingles is that you get it on either the left or right sides of the body. If you get it on the left side, there is a good chance to get shingles on the right side; And a much reduce chance to get a reoccurance on the left side. </p>

<p>Dr Oz, did a piece on Shingles today, March 1,.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>Longprime, What the %$#?</p>

<p>Chicken pox and shingles are not interchangeable words. They are two different syndromes which are caused by the same virus.</p>

[LongPrime]

<p>Absolutely.</p>

<p>?#$%
Does the meaning change even though the characters are arranged in reverse</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

?#$%
Does the meaning change even though the characters are arranged in reverse

</p>

<p>I would think you of all people would know the answer to that question.</p>

[teriwtt]

<p>Interesting topic considering they’re now showing that HPV:</p>

<p>

The human papillomavirus is a man’s issue.
That’s undeniable after Monday’s release of a new report that revealed that half of American men might be infected with human papillomavirus . Until then, HPV was thought by most to be a woman’s virus because it causes cervical cancer. That was never true; HPV, which is spread through sexual contact, should always have been as much a male concern as a female concern.

</p>

<p>[Guys</a>, man up: HPV is a male responsibility - Health - Sexual health - Sexploration - msnbc.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41853611/ns/health-sexual_health/]Guys”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41853611/ns/health-sexual_health/)</p>

<p>And I hate to burst the bubble on shingles because I’m sure my experience is not within the norm, but I had it almost a year ago, and would have never known I had it, had I not gone to a previously scheduled dermatologist appointment (for a semi-annual skin cancer check) and said, “Yea, look at these spider bites I got on my thigh.” I could tell he tried not to laugh at me as he said, “Those aren’t spider bites. That’s shingles.” So I’d had some muscle achyness the couple of days before and felt a bit run down, but I had also spent many, many hours out in the yard doing spring clean up (which is why I thought they were spider bites… I’d been outside for so many hours). </p>

<p>It was a very small area on my upper right thigh, about three inches in diameter, but was diagnosed as shingles because of the pattern of the rash that followed nerve endings. It never really itched, either. So yea, I’ve had shingles and wouldn’t have known it had I not gone to the dermatologist. I know that it can be a miserable disease, but if someone ever says they had it and it wasn’t that bad, you can believe them.</p>

[sylvan8798]

<p>I nearly died from Chicken Pox at 16 (got some nice scars to show for it as well). I had shingles at about 45. Like teriwtt, I got up thinking I had a bunch of bug bites - around my right side and back. I even remarked to H about them. After about 2 days, I realized it had to be something else. Even now, I sometimes get a flash of pain as if someone has poked me with a teensy tiny needle in my side or back.</p>

[notrichenough]

<p>[Exposure</a> to varicella boosts immunity to herpes-zo… [Vaccine. 2002] - PubMed result](<a href=“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=12057605&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google]Exposure”>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=12057605&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google) :</p>

<p>

Mass varicella vaccination is expected to cause a major epidemic of herpes-zoster, affecting more than 50% of those aged 10-44 years at the introduction of vaccination.

Uh-oh.</p>

[LongPrime]

<p>

I would think you {me, longprime} of all people (?how many) would know the answer to that question.

</p>

<p>Not a good assumption. </p>

<p>Dam? ?Mad
God? ?Dog</p>

[LongPrime]

<p>Your statement in #15, is indisputable.</p>

<p>But does having chicken pox put you (indeterminate) as a youngster, you as an adult, at risk? And does having CP put others at risk who do not wish to have a vaccination?</p>

<p>Part of the National Debate.
Where does the rights of individuals affect the rights of other individuals?</p>

<p>In Oregon, a few years ago, a young child died from a treatable infection because of this couple believed in alternative methods of healing. Does a child have Rghts or does the Rights of the Parents flow to the Rights of the child, and all permutations of Rights? {my jests in the previous posts}. Does the State have an obligation or Right to protect the Rights of the Parents, Child, and People?</p>

[ucbalumnus]

<p>Re: [Exposure</a> to varicella boosts immunity to herpes-zo… [Vaccine. 2002] - PubMed result](<a href=“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=12057605&cmd=showdetailview]Exposure”>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=12057605&cmd=showdetailview)</p>

<p>What the article abstract appears to be saying is that adults previously infected with chicken pox get “booster vaccinations” from contact with children with chicken pox. Such “booster vaccinations” make them better able to resist the latent virus hiding in their bodies that may cause shingles. So vaccination of children against chicken pox may eliminate a source of “booster vaccinations” for adults, which may allow their immunity against the virus to weaken, increasing the risk of shingles.</p>

[HImom]

<p>I had chickenpox, as did H & both kids. D got shingles in middle school & was miserable & in great pain. Months or years later, H go shingles & had to be put on narcotics so he could sleep; he was in agony. Years later, I got it. Fortunately, they both recognized it when they saw the 3 little dots on my skin & got me to a dermatologist who diagnosed it & got me on an anti-viral so mine was so mild we were relieved.</p>

<p>H still got the shingles vaccine when it was available, at Safeway! When I am old enough, I plan to have it as well.</p>

<p>The doc has advised us NOT to have our kids get the flu vaccine since 2005. They have a chronic health condition that can greatly worsen from the vaccine (plus they would get very ill from each dose, even when the dose was split so it would be milder). H & I get the flu vaccine regularly. We have all gotten our kids to have most vaccines (tho S balked at HPV & also HepA). D has gotten HPV but not HepA either.</p>

<p>I think it’s important to require vaccines, which can be exempted for documented medical or religious grounds. For the most part, they do protect from death and severe infections and tend to have a good safety record.</p>

[notrichenough]

<p>

So vaccination of children against chicken pox may eliminate a source of “booster vaccinations” for adults, which may allow their immunity against the virus to weaken, increasing the risk of shingles.

Bingo.</p>

<p>Or, rather than face an increased risk, adults can get the vaccine too. So now we have the initial shot at age 1, a booster 6 or 8 years later, a booster when you are 50 or 60, and because the immunity provided diminishes over time, it probably won’t be long before they recommend a booster when you are 25 or 30.</p>

<p>At $100+ per shot… Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!</p>

<p>I read an article somewhere (sorry, can’t find it now) that said there are something like 140 new vaccines under development. Does anyone seriously think this is being driven by public health concerns?</p>

<p>In the U.S., you are as likely to die from being hit by lightning as you are from chicken pox.</p>

[mrsref]

<p>

Or, rather than face an increased risk, adults can get the vaccine too. So now we have the initial shot at age 1, a booster 6 or 8 years later, a booster when you are 50 or 60, and because the immunity provided diminishes over time, it probably won’t be long before they recommend a booster when you are 25 or 30.</p>

<p>At $100+ per shot… Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching! Cha-ching!

</p>

<p>It didn’t cost me $100/shot to have my kids vaccinated. </p>

<p>Even if it did, I think that’s a pretty good investment. Even if your scenario is correct and they will need four shots over their lifespan at $100 each…$400 for 80+ years of immunity to chicken pox…that works out to $5/year. For $5 a year, my kids will not have to go through the discomfort of chicken pox. I remember having chicken pox – I was miserable!</p>

[Hunt]

<p>

I read an article somewhere (sorry, can’t find it now) that said there are something like 140 new vaccines under development. Does anyone seriously think this is being driven by public health concerns?

Yes, at least at the point public health entities and medical practice associations decide whether to recommend the vaccination. Pediatricians don’t get rich recommending vaccines.</p>

<p>I would also note that one of the reasons that vaccination must be required is that there are kids who, for medical reasons, can’t be vaccinated. If you refuse for some invalid reason to have your kid vaccinated, you may be murdering one of those kids who can’t take the vaccine.</p>

<p>As for Gardasil, my wife is an oncologist who focuses on cancer prevention. Both our son and daughter have gotten the vaccine.</p>

<p>Finally, vaccines are one of those situations where everybody has to accept a certain amount of risk for the greater good–to prevent a greater risk. Patriotism should be enough to make people get vaccinated, but when it isn’t, laws are necessary.</p>

[Hanna]

<p>“if a person has a genuine religion objection to a vaccination, we can’t deny them a free public education”</p>

<p>This is not the current state of the law. If your religious practice endangers other people or breaks any neutral law of general applicability, the government may stop it, even if it’s a genuine belief system. Those who want to take peyote in religious services can’t, because the law against taking peyote applies to everyone and isn’t singling out one disfavored religion.</p>

[BunsenBurner]

<p>

I read an article somewhere (sorry, can’t find it now) that said there are something like 140 new vaccines under development. Does anyone seriously think this is being driven by public health concerns?

</p>

<p>I’m actually surprised that the number is so low. Many of these “vaccines” are not intended for immunization of the general population; rather they are being developed as treatments to be administered to patients with currently untreatable conditions such as cancers and HIV. For example, a local company developed a “vaccine” for prostate cancer which will never be administered to healthy men:

PROVENGE is the first prostate cancer therapy approved by the Food and Drug Administration that uses a patient’s own immune cells. Because PROVENGE is designed to activate a patient’s immune system, it may be considered a cancer treatment vaccine.</p>

<p>Cancer treatment vaccines are different from vaccines that you may be familiar with, such as polio or measles vaccines. These vaccines are preventative vaccines that help prevent infectious diseases by stimulating the immune system to recognize and attack infectious agents, such as bacteria or viruses. Cancer treatment vaccines are used to treat cancers that have already occurred and are designed to attack cancer cell growth.

</p>

<p>[Advanced</a> Prostate Cancer Therapy | Provenge.com](<a href=“http://www.provenge.com/advanced-prostate-cancer-therapy.aspx]Advanced”>http://www.provenge.com/advanced-prostate-cancer-therapy.aspx)</p>

<p>Additionally, there are specialized vaccines against certain “exotic” diseases that get administered to military personnel and people who intend to travel to countries where these diseases are prevalent.</p>

[cptofthehouse]

<p>If your kid ever gets cancer or other ailment that requires immune system depletion treatment, you will be glad if s/he had chicken pox or the vaccine as it greatly improves the chances of not dying from CP if s/he gets it. Believe me, i’ve lived the terror even with my child having had CP, and I know a number of kids who died from CP.</p>

[notrichenough]

<p>

It didn’t cost me $100/shot to have my kids vaccinated.

Did your insurance pay for it? Here’s the CDC price list, it shows the private per dose cost of Varivax as $83.77/dose (the adult form for shingles is $153.93). I’m sure doctor’s are adding some kind of markup.</p>

<p>[Vaccines:</a> VFC/CDC Vaccine Price List](<a href=“http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/cdc-vac-price-list.htm]Vaccines:”>http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/cdc-vac-price-list.htm)</p>

<p>

If you refuse for some invalid reason to have your kid vaccinated, you may be murdering one of those kids who can’t take the vaccine.

Murder? I get the feeling that for you there are no valid reasons.

everybody has to accept a certain amount of risk for the greater good–to prevent a greater risk.

Yet the ones claiming the “good” are the same ones who have repeatedly been fined or prosecuted for fraudulent science and safety claims of their products, e.g Avandia, Vioxx, Celebrex, etc.</p>

<p>

Patriotism should be enough to make people get vaccinated,

Does “patriotism” require that I blindly accept whatever someone in “government” says, or do whatever they tell me to do, or am I allowed to think for myself, and protest if I disagree, and maybe even disobey?</p>

<p>And I’m pretty sure neither chicken pox nor cervical cancer are issues of national security or even economic security, so arguing patriotism is pretty ridiculous.</p>

[notrichenough]

<p>

“if a person has a genuine religion objection to a vaccination, we can’t deny them a free public education”

This is not the current state of the law.

Most if not all states provide for religious or medical exemption from vaccinations, and many allow them for personal beliefs or philosophies. The forms and conditions are easily found with a simple google search.</p>