<p>The job of the special education is not to teach future “ditch diggers”. It is to teach children who could have as many options as they desire. Thats why in my opinion teachers who choose special education have that rare quality that allows them to view all that is possible and the really good ones deserve to be rewarded for that.</p>
<p>Think about the fifth grade kid who has gone all through school and finally comes to Ms X’s class. Within weeks Ms X has a strong impression that little Jane is dyslexic. It was never discovered by any other teacher. Little Jane with proper training can go on to have the self esteem and dreams that have been destroyed because she could’nt read well. Little Jane does not need to dig ditches once she can work through her dyslexia. There are more kids than you realize that go years in school with undetected learning disabilities because mainstream teachers are not qualified to recognize them. Yeah they may think Jane isn’t a kid who likes to read or that she doesn’t have parents that care enough to insist that she read at home…but to really recognize and understand learning disabilties…not a chance. That is why so many kids enter middle school and highschool without being identified. Most times this is far too late to undue the damage that has been done. </p>
<p>Teachers who can trully change the life of a child not simply teach a subject are the ones that should be rewarded. It doesn’t matter what the subject is in my opinion…it is the person that teaches and makes changes in kids that will have an impact far greater than one subject or some specific knowledge. A great teacher is someone who changes the way a student thinks and sees the world…they do not simply teach math or science or SS. A kid could sit in front of on-line lectures and learn a subject but most kids will not learn the information nearly as well.</p>
<p>This is a very interesting topic and relates to something that happened in our community this past spring. A community member wrote a letter to the editor stating that he would NOT vote for a school levy in a district where a KINDERGARTEN teacher was making $90,000. (This teacher is at the ceiling of the pay scale because she has taught for 35 years, and has a Master’s degree plus 45 semester hours beyond that degree.) If that person were teaching something like AP Calculus, the pay level would be high, but acceptable, according to this community member.</p>
<p>In August I will be starting my 22nd year as an elementary teacher. I have no doubt that the person who minimized the importance and workload of the kindergarten teacher has never taught a day in their life.</p>
<p>I have taught grades 2-5 (and kindergarten) and grades 3-5 are definitely less tiring than kindergarten. I don’t ever want to teacher kinder ever again! Teachers of the lower grades are experts in the delivery of the material so that their students can understand and learn. This becomes more difficult in inner city schools, etc. where the students do not have the necessary help from home.</p>
<p>A calculus teacher is less involved with the “whole person” and is mainly concerned with teaching the advanced material. Both levels have their challenges and one is not more important than the other.</p>
<p>Sportsmama,
I truly appreciate that story because it beautifully illustrates the way a lot of people feel about elementary teachers in general. Some of the comments that have been made to me over my career are as follows (again, I have the equivalent education in my field as the Ap Calc teacher has in hers)</p>
<p>From one student to another:" Of course, Mrs. EPTR didn’t go to college. Why would she be teaching ART if she had gone to college". (cute coming from a child but it indicates the attitude at home.)</p>
<p>From a school committee member “Your class is such a wonderful break for the kids. They work so hard in the classroom, they need a break!”</p>
<p>From a colleague: “YOU are in the teacher’s union, TOO?”</p>
<p>From a child to another elementary teacher “My dad says that teachers who did badly in school teach elementary school. If they were good at it they would be at the high school.”</p>
<p>I agree, Involvedmom! That’s why paying teachers based on subject matter would not work, IMHO. </p>
<p>I am sure this community member has no idea what being a teacher involves, at any level, based on his letters to the editor. I happen to know this kindergarten teacher, and she is an outstanding educator who was brought to tears by the comments made by this person. I think most of the public has little idea what kindergarten teachers are expected to do with 5 and 6-year-old students today–whether they are developmentally ready for it or not.</p>
<p>Any job should be paid fair market value of position, just like everybody else. It gets messed up with union contracts. Teachers at private schools are paid less, and most of them are better. Private school will just fire a teacher who is not performing up to the standards of this school. Most teachers at private schools still prefer working there despite of lower pay. Job satisfaction is a strong factor, money are important, but not everything to sacrifice many hours of your life every day.</p>
<p>Every town administrator and school committee member should be required to spend a full week in schools. One full day in a K class, one in a special ed class or going room t room with a SPED teacher, one at a Junior High (after taking appropriate medication, of course :)), one at a high school and one in a specialist class like art or music. I’m guessing they might have a different view on the skills needed to do the job well.</p>
<p>I have actually invited administrators and school committee members to spend the day with me. I have yet to be taken up on it.</p>
<p>Miami,
By what standard are the teachers at these private schools better than those at the public? I hear this sentiment expressed a lot here on CC. I really think it varies from school to school. Private schools do not require the same educational qualifications for their teachers that public schools do. It is likely that if you send your child to a private school, depending on the school, your child may be taught by a teacher with no training in child development, classroom management or other critical areas.</p>
<p>I agree that privates can fire poor performers than publics but I am guessing they have to do that quite frequently.</p>
<p>“Both levels have their challenges and one is not more important than the other.”</p>
<p>I disagree. I think elementary is way more important than high school. Once a student has solid reading, math, and reasoning skills, they have the potential to learn more advanced material on their own if necessary. But they need someone to teach the basics first, and most people are lost without that. Everything else depends on the elementary grades.</p>
<p>"Miami,
By what standard are the teachers at these private schools better than those at the public? "
-Well, bad ones do not survive at private school that sends every single student to 4 year college every single year. So, here is my standard. It was my opinion and I based it on my standard. My standard was based on personal experience as a parent at both public and private schools.</p>
<p>And might it be that those (private) schools send every single student to a 4 year college because they can select their student population, not because the teachers are so much better than the public school teachers?</p>
<p>My children attend catholic school in the South Florida area and I teach in a public elementary school.</p>
<p>On open house evenings, you cannot get a parking space at the private schools unless you show up hours in advance. For the past 4 years I would say that approximately 50% of my students’ parents show up. When I taught in the inner-city areas of Miami I would have 1 or 2 students (seriously!) show up out of a class of 25. </p>
<p>My own children are assigned projects, etc. in the early grades that do require a parent’s help. These have been good learning experiences in preparing them to do things independently at an earlier age. At least at my school, which has been an “A” school (Florida grades schools) every year, we know that we would get half of these projects completed.</p>
<p>Parental involvement is a huge piece of a child’s education, especially in the elementary years. There is a huge difference in parental involvement between the private schools and public schools. Are the teachers “better” in the private schools? I do not see evidence of this.</p>
<p>SportsMama – In many school districts, a teacher who takes 48 units (lower division, upper division, graduate) in ANY subject at ANY accredited college is jumped on the pay scale to getting paid like the teacher has a master’s degree in a subject relevant to the specific teaching position. If a elementary teacher wants to take Italian classes to prepare for a future vacation in Italy, that’s great, but I don’t see any good reason for the taxpayers to then bump up the teacher’s salary for irrelevant or lower-level classes. I find it patently ridiculous that we pay the exact same increment to a teacher who takes 48 miscellaneous units (including courses truly unrelated to the subject area) exactly the same as we pay a teacher who goes back and acquires a masters in special education. </p>
<p>Furthermore, there isn’t much evidence at all that additional education correlates strongly with improved classroom outcomes – though this is possibly because so much of the additional education is of the unrelated or poor quality variety.</p>
<p>^^^
I agree. I went to a private elementary school for two years and when it closed, went to public until I reached High School age. I attended a private Catholic high School. Did they send a higher percentage of kids to college than the public? Yes! Because we had to take an entrance exam to get in and we could be turned away if our grades were not up to par. i think that many private schools have the advantage of smaller populations than public and this affords them the ability to attend to individual students more effectively. Remember, though, that private schools are not obligated to provide special education or follow IEPs. The classrooms are not filled with the diverse issues that are present at the public schools. Is there more parental involvement at privates? Of course! Because those parents are motivated parents. They chose to send their child to a private school because they firmly believe they will receive a superior educational experience there. Whether this is true or not is immaterial. The parental demographic at a private school is a different one than at the public schools. It doesn’t mean that the teachers are better. I remember the teachers that I had at the private schools that i attended. Don’t even get me started! A few of them were wonderful but the rest were…well…let’s just say it was an interesting bouquet of personality disorders.</p>
<p>agree w #73.
I have one child who attended private K-12 & one attended public from 3-12.
Education was better in the private elementary, but in the high school they were comparable. ( in private, class sizes were also smaller, curriculum was determined by teacher not district & had extensive financial resources- even before Gates sent his kids there ) Private schools raise $ to supplement teacher salaries.
Both schools had strong rates of students attending college- or other worthwhile programs immediately after high school graduation.
It’s true that it is easier to dismiss teachers of lesser skills in the private schools, it is also easier to dismiss the students.</p>
<p>Sorry, not what I meant. But again my point is high schools need to teach for success in life. EVERY student needs to learn simple economics, simple household chores, balancing a checkbook, etc. Not every student needs to learn advanced math or physics.</p>
<p>^^^
I also think it is important to be sure that we are comparing apples to apples with private schools. The average Catholic elementary school is likely not going to be on par with an elite, well funded private. All privates are not created equal. We have one private day school near us that I would have sent my children to in a heartbeat if I could have afforded it. It is difficult to get into which, of course, sets the standard for the peer group that the students will be in the company of. There are also several Catholic elementary schools in the area that I wouldn’t have chosen over the excellent public schools in my town.</p>
<p>Why should all teachers be paid the same? I don’t buy the “they’re different, not easier or harder” argument. That argument applies to everything; so why don’t all working people make the same amount of money?</p>
<p>How much money you make isn’t directly determined by how hard what you do happens to be. If anything, this is a secondary effect. What decides your earning potential is supply and demand. If lots of people are willing to do what you are offering to do, odds are that you can’t command as much money for your services. If very few people are willing to do what you do, odds are that you can command a very high salary. If lots of people want what you do, then you can command a higher salary than if nobody cares about what you do.</p>
<p>If people want STEM education to be better at the K-12 levels, this means increased demand for K-12 education.</p>
<p>If STEM majors have better job opportunities upon graduation, this means reduced supply for K-12 education.</p>
<p>Since both of the above are probably true, doesn’t it make sense that you’d need to offer more money to STEM majors to get the same kind of talent? I’d wager that non-STEM teachers are better than current STEM teachers at the K-12 level; we need to pay STEM teachers more money if we want all of our teachers to be equally good.</p>
) Private schools raise $ to supplement teacher salaries.