<p>Oh shoot. Mistaken it by decimals. Man such a careless mistake. :(</p>
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<p>Haha, you said it better than I could have said it, but let me try to explain one more time. @Jimmy797, you’re right. 300 people scoring a 2400 is rare, in the sense that few people in the world accomplish it, but not rare in the sense that the highly selective schools almost never see it. Now, taking into consideration scorers that could have been capable of scoring a 2400 (the brightline being circa 2350, an arbitrary number), high scores become even less rare. So, I wasn’t clear when I casually threw out the term “rare,” but what I meant was that it’s not “rare” to college admissions officers at, say, the top 15 schools in the nation. I’m attempting to point out that there is no reason that people should be so focused on scores and less focused on other things that are equally important. A lot of people misguidedly think that getting a perfect score is the equivalent of an acceptance, which it’s not. For example, I got a 2390 on my SAT and a 36 on my ACT and got rejected by Stanford, but got into every other school. I doubt getting a 2400 would have changed anything, though I’m sure if I had thought more about my essays or tried harder in school, I would have had a better shot. In conclusion, what I was TRYING to point out (evidently, I failed) is not that a 2400 isn’t an accomplishment, but that people should lose focus of other important aspects to an application.</p>
<p>Great guide silverturtle, I hadn’t realize you’d gotten perfect scores on both the ACT and SAT :D. I’ve got two questions:</p>
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<li><p>Is there downloadable version of your PDF? The one posted on Page 3 doesn’t let me use the Download link, even after I’ve logged in. Was it protected for a reason?</p></li>
<li><p>I’ve got from now (mid-July) till November to work on the SAT. Though I’m also taking the ACT in September and the SAT II’s in October, I’m trying to get in the 2300+ range. This may seem ambitious as my previous SAT score was a 2060, but, without any intention of sounding conceited, I know that I can do it. What do you think I should do prepare to get this score? I’ve already taken every practice test offered in book form by CollegeBoard except for the 3 new ones in the 2nd edition, though I also have a few online as well (SAT Online Course School member). </p></li>
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<p>Thanks, and cheers. :)</p>
<p>Perhaps this has already been asked, but would a parent from the school’s graduate school be considered a legacy?</p>
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I assume that here you mean that there’s practically no difference between a 2350 scorer and a 2400 scorer. That’s mostly true (in my opinion) except for a possible difference in that the 2400 scorer might be generally more careful (I believe that anyone who scored a 2350 could score a 2400 with enough attention being paid). Then again, some people score 2400’s without prep, and others need to study REALLY hard to get to a 2350, so in that sense, there is a difference, but that’s just one situation. Standardized tests, in my opinion, aren’t the best showing of talent, because they can be ‘beaten’ by just practicing a lot, for the most part. But that’s just my take.</p>
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If it were, I doubt they’d be the top schools in the nation :D</p>
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Well, that’s definitely true, as anyone who has spent enough time on CC could tell you. I’ve come to take this for granted to the point where when I talk to my friends about college admissions, I forget that they don’t know this fact (and being as stubborn as they are, it’s difficult to persuade them otherwise.) They always say something like “your SAT’s are amazing, stop worrying about getting accepted it’s a sure thing!” And I just drop it, because, well, that guarantees nothing.</p>
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This probably hurt your argument more than it helped it. While I’m sure it wasn’t just the 2390 and the 36 that got you into the other colleges, it definitely helped you. I know you were emphasizing that you had a 2390 and a 36 and Stanford still rejected you, but then you have the fact that all the other colleges accepted you. Yes, I agree that having a high score doesn’t guarantee admission. However, it still gives you a boost. A 2400 would’ve made no difference in your chances, most probably. Better essays and grades might have, but I think it was your essays that didn’t satisfy the admissions officers, seeing as all the other colleges were more than satisfied with your SAT and school grades.</p>
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You didn’t fail, I understood your point from your post, however, I’m a very literal guy in the sense of my arguments and just had to point out that a 2400 IS rare 
Sorry, I’m just annoying that way :(</p>
<p>At any rate, I believe our opinions diverge on the achievement part of the argument. A 2400 is definitely an achievement, in that you have to sit for 4 hours straight and get (practically) every question correct and write a competent essay, and based on how rare 2350+ scores are (I think they’re less than 1%, but I’m not sure), anything in that range is an achievement. Definitely not one that overshadows everything else on your application, but on its own, it is kind of impressive. I agree that there’s very little difference in terms of how big an achievement it is in terms of a 2400 vs a 2300, say.</p>
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I’m surprised any college would have rejected an applicant with the stats and major awards she had.</p>
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<p>I believe that it varies from school to school.</p>
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<p>.13% of college-bound SAT-takers score 2350+. </p>
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<p>She was accepted to Dartmouth, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Brown, Cornell, Columbia, UPenn, Williams, Amherst, Oxford, Emory, Vanderbilt, UChicago, WashU, Northwestern, Georgetown, NYU, Carnegie Mellon, Tufts, Caltech, MIT, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Johns Hopkins, Michigan, and Boston University; the sole rejection was from Stanford. </p>
<p>When you have that wide of a net (even if you are an outstandingly qualified applicant, as is the case here), getting rejected from only one college is astounding, given the degree of unpredictability in admissions.</p>
<p>^Why did she apply to so many places again? That must have been thousands in application fees alone.</p>
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<p>I recall reading a while back that after being rejected (not deferred) from Stanford early, she became very uncertain of her chances and thus felt compelled to apply widely. This is a mostly-rational response, though she may have taken it too far. :)</p>
<p>Is there a difference between being deferred and being waitlisted?</p>
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<p>I don’t know if that’s true. I’m sure I could have gotten a 2400 with the same amount of care that I took in getting my 2390. I mean, if I had taken it in another month, I could have gotten a 2300 or a 2400, just depending on the questions, a silly mistake that even people who are traditionally careful could have made. I read somewhere that colleges don’t even consider your score anymore, but they consider your “range” of scores. I’m sure silverturtle would know more about this than I do though.</p>
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<p>I’m going to have to disagree. I’m sure there are tons of 36s and 2390s that apply and get rejected. Not TONS, but like, more than a few. I think my other accomplishments, the ones that I chose to focus on instead of a test-taking, got me into the other schools. I mean, sure my scores helped me just like other things helped me, but they definitely weren’t something that defined my application, which is why people should focus less on SATs. Who knows though? College acceptances are fairly arbitrary after a certain point.</p>
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<p>Ha, I don’t know about “outstandingly qualified” but I definitely made a mistake when applying to so many colleges, and I would not recommend it to anyone. You also left out DUKKKKEEEEEEEEEEE!! 
Technically, I wasn’t accepted though. I was waitlisted.</p>
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<p>Lastly, two of my best friends have 2400s and 36s (as in, they both have a 2400/36) and they were both rejected from Yale, Cornell, Dartmouth, Stanford, Duke, and Columbia. And they both had more major awards/better stats than me. Stranger things have happened. I just don’t want people to have an unrealistic view that “All I need to do is get a 2400 and then I’ll be accepted wherever I want to go.”</p>
<p>In the end, the SAT is less of a deal breaker than people make it out to be. And silverturtle, have I mentioned how AMAZING this is? I LOVE it.</p>
<p>@LightSource - Being deferred happens when you apply early action/decision, which means that your deadline for the application is around Nov. 1st. Decisions come out around Dec. 15th or earlier, depending on the college. The decisions for the early round are accepted, rejected, or deferred, which means that your application will be reconsidered with the regular decision applicants. Being waitlisted occurs during the regular decision round, which essentially means that you have to commit to another school that accepted you on May 1st and then colleges that waitlisted you will contact you after May 1st, telling you whether or not you have gained admission into the college.</p>
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<p>Oh definitely too far.</p>
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<p>Deferral occurs when an early applicant’s application is not accepted or denied but is instead moved to the Regular Decision pool. A waitlisting occurs when a Regular Decision applicant is neither accepted nor denied but is instead in the running for possible openings in the class that result from acceptees’ not matriculating.</p>
<p>Ok, thanks guys.</p>
<p>@silverturtle, you’re so CLEAR when you express your thoughts. Do you debate?</p>
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I misphrased. I was just giving one example; taking the test one month and having enough luck (in the way that you just happen to know all the questions while another month you may have not) is definitely another example, one that I’m aware of I was mostly agreeing with you.</p>
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Well you say you disagree yet your explanation agrees with me. I think here, too, I might not have been clear. I meant that the 2390 helped you in regards to other applicants with lower grades. Maybe not a huge boost, but a boost nonetheless. I know it wouldn’t help/hurt in regards to students who got a 2350/2400
I also agree with you on the part about the rest of the application being much more important than just the SAT grade. However I think you’re overemphasizing that fact to the point where you’re underemphasizing the SAT grade - it’s not your whole application, no, but it’s no less important (and no more important) than any other part of it. Having a low score could definitely keep you out, and having a high score, while not guaranteeing you a spot, will definitely help you somewhat (in regards to other applicants with lower scores, and those with a 2200-2300 are much more abundant than those with a 2300-2400, if we’re merely going by score ranges since a 100 point difference is negligible based on our previous agreement.)</p>
<p>I’d also like to add that the example you gave about the 2 2400ers getting rejected is exactly my point (and yours too I believe) - a perfect SAT score won’t guarantee you admission, but it won’t hurt you, and will probably help your chances. Of course though, if you have, say, a 2400 and a 4.0 GPA and yet 0 ECs and horrible essays (in the sense that they’re not engaging) then you’re all but sure to get rejected from just about every Ivy, and MIT, and Caltech, etc.
In the end, my point is: No, an SAT is not your whole application, it’s merely a small (but no less important) part of it. It will not guarantee your admission, but it will help your chances - how much it affects them depends on the college you’re applying to. And in practically every top college in the US, I believe they emphasize a good essay/ECs/recs over perfect SAT scores. In my opinion, the difference between a 2250 and a 2400 can be disregarded if one person’s essay/ECs are better than the other’s. But you can imagine how a 2400 would’ve helped the former student - if he already had better ECs and essays than the perfect scorer, getting a 2400 would’ve made him superior in every way, and thus much less likely to be rejected because of that other guy with a 2400 and slightly worse essays/ECs - in some colleges. In others they might not care about the difference at all. I hope I was clear enough in that last example to help my argument rather than hinder it :D</p>
<p>By the way, that’s an amazing acceptance list, congrats! (I know I’m a bit late but still!) I just hope I can get into 2 (specific ones) of those, the rest I can live without Mind if I ask why you chose Princeton (Duke? I’m kind of confused by your location) over other colleges like Harvard/Yale/MIT etc.?
At any rate I believe we’re in agreement over most topics so perhaps we should let the thread get back on-topic, to silverturtle’s guide :)</p>
<p>^She chose Duke over Princeton after being accepted off of Duke’s waitlist.</p>
<p>Semi-Silly question.</p>
<p>Suppose, I earn a 2400 on my SAT. Would it be in my best interest (admissions), to take the ACTs? This would ‘prove’ that I am qualified with different tests. I have heard/realized that this will show the school that I have wasted my time. What do you, all of you,think?</p>
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<p>Thanks for the compliment; I certainly strive for clarity. As for your question, I am not on any debate team, though I certainly would be eager to join one if given the opportunity (in college hopefully). </p>
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<p>I appreciate your compliments, yet I question their validity. :)</p>
<p>Ironically, I have not given much thought to conveying how to communicate clearly, so I can unfortunately not be of significant help here. I do, however, find that writing very slowly and pausing to reflect on how what you are saying sounds and how an uninformed reader may interpret your words to be helpful.</p>
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<p>No, I would not recommend that. I would not have taken the ACT if I had not been forced to.</p>