@cobrat, Harvard has moved up in terms of CS opportunities, it seems, FYI.
This wasn’t the one I saw but it’s the same general idea:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/black-man-given-nations-worst-job,6439/
As hard as it is for some people to believe, not everyone measures success in terms of salary. A lot of the points in this thread have fallen along the lines of “Graduates from school X earn Y dollars more than graduates from school Z. Therefore everyone should want to go to school X.” I picked my major because I enjoy it. I started at a community college, which has saved me a TON of money. I’m finishing my degree at UIUC, which is one of the top ranked schools in the country in my major, even though it’s not an “elite school” in the opinions of most.
Not everyone wants to work for Goldman-Sachs or whatever other top law/business/whatever firm. For many people, the idea of living in NYC, LA, Chicago, or (insert big city) is not at all appealing. This is where these kinds of jobs are at. I’m a physics major, and I honestly couldn’t tell you what the average salary of a PhD physicist is or how graduates from school X compare to graduates from school Z in terms of lifetime earnings or anything like that. I’m not studying physics due to a potential salary. I’m studying physics because I like physics. I could make $30k a year for the rest of my life and probably be pretty content with it as long as I’m doing something I enjoy doing.
Simply put, the idea of ‘success’ being suggested by the OP is not shared by everyone. Comments such as “Anyone would want to be on Forbes lists” and other such generalizations have been very prevalent in this thread, and it’s not at all true in any general sense. Not everyone is driven by the primary ambition of maximizing their lifetime earnings. Money is of relatively little importance to me. Clearly, for many people money is the bigger picture. They see college as a means to attaining a high paying job. I see college as a way to educate myself and gain the skills to do something that I’m very passionate about and want to spend my life doing.
edit - Sorry, double post
edit - Really sorry, triple post…lol
I have no idea how that happened. I only hit the button once!
That’s only within the last few years after Harvard started pouring more money and institutional support into DEAS.
At least they’re doing more to add such support. On the other hand, there’s an article about Yale students, alums, and even some faculty members criticizing Yale’s CS department for not doing enough in this regard and concerns it will be further sidelined compared to peer and more elite institutions:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-news-bc-yale-tech06-20150306-story.html
Edit - Okay, this is ridiculous. I have no idea how this got posted four times. If an admin sees this, could you delete these extraneous posts please?
@comfortablycurt, perhaps you could flag the extra ones and explain to the mod that they were duplicates.
"Not everyone wants to work for Goldman-Sachs or whatever other top law/business/whatever firm. For many people, the idea of living in NYC, LA, Chicago, or (insert big city) is not at all appealing. "
Or, living in a big city could be extremely appealing - but finance just has no particular appeal of interest.
This is the analogy I draw:
I could look at my own alma mater and say - “If you don’t go there, doors close to you.” And I’m thinking the world of theater, in which there is truth to that statement. Most people would say - well, so what? I’m not interested in being in theater. That’s great that it’s great for theater majors, but what does that have to do with me, and who died and made theater the arbiter of “great job”? That’s how I feel when I see finance in here. Why would I assume finance is “the” job any more than I’d assume that being in theater is “the” job? It’s self-evident it’s of high interest to some and no interest at all to most.
"Why would I assume finance is “the” job any more than I’d assume that being in theater is “the” job? "
You are repeating yourself. Again.
There is an answer, that seems to work for some decent number of people who actually have that option available. As opposed to those who pontificate about it when in reality they don’t have that option available. It is expressed in my posts #207 & 218. Rather than repeating those in response.
Really? I don’t know what you’re talking about. I had a finance option available to me. I did an internship for 2 years for a major financial institution and had a job offer, which I turned down.
@monydad: Okay, so I’ve re-read the posts you said to read. You still haven’t answered the question, but rather have provided circular logic—you’ve defined graduates of “elite” colleges as having more options, and so wherever they go must mean that that’s the best place to go, since that’s where people with options go. You completely ignore the possibilities, for example, (a) that those choices may be being made in the presence of heavy cultural or familial expectations or other such social factors, or (b) that graduates of “elite” colleges mightn’t have quite the completely free and wide set of options you’re presupposing. In fact, a number of the posts on this thread would seem to indicate that (b) is most emphatically not true, thus undercutting your entire set of claims in a huge way.
Oh—and you claim that big-city employment is more desirable because high real estate prices reflect demand, thus demonstrating that there’s huge desire to live in big cities. Really? I mean, beyond completely ignoring the supply side of the equation, you ignore the fact that it only takes a very small proportion of the overall population to place demand pressure on a small region.
Really, if you want us to believe you, you really ought to do a better job of considering and countering alternative explanations of the data, rather than simply attempting what is basically a proof by repeated assertion.
re #291, If you were actually in the right place, you’d have known exactly what I was talking about.
Re#292, I don’t care if you believe me. Feel free not to.
FWIW not to nit but, if you do ever take an economics class you will find that price is set by supply and demand, in combination, not just demand by itself.
Um, that’s what I said…
It’s absolutely silly to argue that high-paying finance jobs are the be-all and end-all. Many students who would be competitive for such jobs do not compete for them because they don’t want them. Many students who take them leave after a few years and accept lower compensation doing something else or working for different firms because they don’t find the jobs satisfying. In fact, virtually every person I have known who has gone into that world has done so with a lot of trepidation and an exit strategy at hand. That was true 30 years ago, and it was true last year when I listened to a Wharton undergraduate agonize about whether to accept a permanent job offer from his summer employer, a specialized investment bank with a solid-platinum reputation for quality and intelligence (which he said it deserved).
Ditto for consulting, too. I met a McKinsey partner who was in his early 50s a few weeks ago, and he confirmed that he is one of the very oldest people still working at the firm. People there make enormous sums of money and walk away from it once they’ve had enough, not once they can’t earn that much anymore.
Sixty years ago, my mother dropped out of Harvard Law School to teach high school, because she hated Harvard Law School and she liked teaching adolescents. She taught high school for 25 years, then got a PhD and taught college students for another 20. When she returned to Harvard for what would have been her 25th reunion, she was thrilled to realize how glad she was not to spend her days surrounded by people like her classmates (my father excepted, of course . . . but really not). At least three of my law school classmates are also teaching high school now. And none of my law school classmates who took the highest-paying jobs on Wall Street remained with those firms. I have a set of post-law-school friends who could write their own ticket anywhere, and every one of them – every single one, no exception – has made career decisions to walk away from money. Some have chosen leisure, or less pressure, some more prestige, some more passion and satisfaction, but it’s fair to say that not one of them is maximizing his or her earnings today.
I believe everyone wants “enough,” but very few people want “as much as it’s humanly possible to get.” People differ wildly in their definitions of “enough,” and they differ with themselves over time, too. But it’s just not true that everyone is insatiable.
ok sorry skimmed, (or actually probably just read first sentence)
I agree with you JHS.
Right now one of my kids is deciding between law T3-6 (or half price at 10) vs, some ridiculous master’s programs that guarantee nothing. except low salaries forever, if related jobs can even be had. At that level of law schools “biglaw” is highly feasible. But I think kid is going to go for one of the ridiculous master’s programs. Weighing preferences and known characteristics of jobs.
That does not mean the kid does not think biglaw is more “the job”, as viewed by the masses, as compared to other choices. Kid knows it would lead to a bigger job with likely more impact and much more money. Kid just doesn’t want that, given all that goes with it, as much as the other thing. I think.
We’ll know in a month.
As I said before , I wouldn’t want to be President. Do you see the way those guys age, over their term in office?
That doesn’t mean I don’t think being President is “a top job”. Or that I think it is equal to being a "regular " worker in an aeronautics company, at the wages they pay. Or whatever other spurious equivalencies were advanced earlier. Also, nobody is actually offering me the job…
Now I might choose to be an aeronautics company salaryman, for personal reasons, based on my own personal priorities… But that doesn’t mean I think it is as big deal of a job as being President.
JHS - http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/18271027/#Comment_18271027
Really lovely - I thought you might enjoy this… your comment brought it to mind…
I did not go to law school. However, I chucked my career for more leisure, less pressure and I just want to do what I want. I did this in my 30’s. I don’t know many people who have done this. When I told people I did this, they don’t get it…so I don’t tell people. 
I don’t care about maximizing earnings. I don’t care about prestige. I don’t know what prestige is. People are people. If there are people who don’t have a need to go to the bathroom, let me know. I may change my mind about prestige. Some of the people I respect most are people who volunteer their time to help the less fortunate.
If I really cared about maximizing prestige, I wouldn’t have written over 30,000 posts.
I have found in life that intelligent, fascinating people are not exclusively found in elite schools.
I worked in the financial markets. I just finished a book by Scott Fearon called ‘Dead Companies Walking’. He is a hedge fund manager. He did not go to an elite school. He went to Northwestern.
Scott said Wall Street is full of highly intelligent guys. Super competitive. Lacking in morals. I can’t argue with that.
Life is too short. Hanging around super competitive people who lack morals is not how I want to spend my life.
My son works on wall street.
I can’t find the post now, but someone said that the US views a high salary as a symbol of success. And I agree, that’s true, to an extent. Many, perhaps most, in America view a high salary as meaning one has truly achieved something great. (I don’t share this view but I understand where it comes from.)
With that said, I’d reckon that a vast majority of people would not see someone with a high salary but a holier-than-thou attitude as a success. They wouldn’t see someone with a high salary that came at the cost of their family or other relationships as a success.
I think, truly, that when it comes down to it- people see happiness as success. Money is just seen as a proxy for that. I don’t think the average person on the street would rather be rich in a high-stress job where you couldn’t see family than in a job where you can pay the bills and be surrounded by family, friends, and have some time to enjoy life. Are there some who prefer the former? Absolutely! Are they the majority? I don’t think so.