Skip an elite school, and doors will close

Re the Ohio State vs Williams hypothetical - I would likely tell my kid to go to Williams, because I think my kids do better surrounded by a mass of top-notch students versus having to find their tribe. But it wouldn’t be “because I think they could get into i-banking.”

I’ve worked hard enough that my kids don’t have to be uber-focused on how-much-money-they-make-first-year-out. My son is looking at some low-paid / unpaid options that would require parental subsidy, but that would potentially advance his career. That’s precisely why I’ve worked my butt off - to give him that opportunity, and so he needn’t be the drool-over-banking type unless he WANTS to be that type.

“…except for most of the legacy admits”

Hey buddy , my D2 was fully qualified. I’ve no reason to assume differently for the others. Though I don’t really know.
It takes a certain amount of fortitude to apply as a legacy, believe it or not. Because if you get rejected it is all the more embarrassing, given the “legacy bump” you allegedly were supposed to receive. I was really worried when D2 applied.

That poster doesn’t know what he’s talking about re legacy admits. At any top school, the majority of legacy admits are denied, so it’s nowhere near the bump that he thinks it is.

As to legacy admits, I don’t know why people so often assume they are not qualified. Smart, accomplished parents who value education are pretty likely to parent children who are smart, accomplished, and who value education. Chip off the old block most of the time I would imagine…

Much2Learn, I don’t want to compare our experiences of 30 years ago to what is available today.

I am glad your daughter is having a great experience at her school.

@fractalmstr I know this is off-topic, but I had to address the topic of ranking hospitals and whether it’s absurd. Hopital ranking may be, objecitvely, one of the more instructive and useful rankings of all. Measures of safety, outcomes, mortality, and peer-assessments should be of interest to anyone who needs to spend time in a hospital, whether as a patient, visitor or employee.

Except then you have to correct by the types of patient populations a hospital sees. The county hospital that sees a lot of gunshot victims, pregnant patients without prenatal care, “hopeless cause” cancer cases, etc. is going to have very different outcomes from your community hospital that sees very few gun traumas, sees laboring women who are low risk and had prenatal care, etc.

I see your point, but I think most people looking for a specific doctor already have a doctor in mind… They were likely referred to said doctor (based on reputation) and have every intention to see that doctor, whether or not s/he is at the highest ranked hospital.

More to the point, I don’t see the need to “rank” the hospitals. A ratings system [report card style] would be better and more helpful IMO.

I think some folks confuse legacy admits with development admits. From my observation, most legacy admits (including my own kids, ahem) are just as high-flying academically as everybody else. Maybe they had one more B in high school, or a slightly lower SAT, but in terms of ECs and overall accomplishments, they are no different. Development admits, it is said, may get a bit more leeway, as do athletic recruits.

But I think this raises another point; your own sources of information will shape what you think is the best fit for you (or for your kid). I think this is one reason a lot of legacies want to go to the legacy school; not just because they think they’ll have a better chance of getting in, but because they’ve been hearing all their lives how great it is, and they know a lot about it. This is also one reason so many people go to a local college, or a college in their home state; it’s what they know about.

I think the Internet, including CC, is making it possible for students to gather a lot more information about different colleges, so perhaps more of them will cast a wider net.

This has been an interesting thread to read. I do agree with the post that said, “it depends.” It does depend. The only thing that makes “it depends” at all controversial is when people want to defend their own choices, at the expense of others’. Certainly some people–you see posts on CC all the time, from kids who say “I want to be an investment banker, what school should I attend?” as well as from parents who are focused on their kids’ future earnings–are going for the money, to the exclusion of all other factors. (I remember when the girl I used to babysit complained that her father would only let her go to Harvard if she did so as a “business” major, rather than an English major [never mind that Harvard doesn’t have a business major], because college was about earning a living, not about having a job you liked). It takes a certain amount of financial privilege to argue that college is about learning, about finding what you are good at, about the life of the mind; when your own history has been lived on the financial edge, that kind of argument seems irrelevant. But “earning a living” is not the same as “becoming a world leader in your field.” Mind you, I don’t think that getting on Forbes’ list of most powerful men (is it really men? Really?) is the end-all, but if that is your goal, yes, going to the highest-ranked school you can manage might help you. And not going to that school might hinder you. Can that hindrance be overcome? Certainly.

Two observations from my own life: I am on the local Democratic committee, and judges in my state are elected, so we have had any number of judicial candidates presenting their resumes for our support. Every one, so far, went to a lesser-ranked undergrad school, and a relatively local law school, but their work since graduation has been amazing. These are really smart, really compassionate, really hardworking people, and they’ve been quite successful in their fields. Are they the norm for their schools? Probably not. But they represent what can be accomplished through sheer dedication and talent. I do not know what they might have done had they gone to some elite school, but the argument that any doors have been closed to them is hard to buy. They might have had to work harder to open them, but that experience itself may have fitted them for the jobs they are pursuing.

On the other hand, my husband went to an Ivy (Cruz would call it a “lesser” Ivy), and he’s an example of a guy who had both native intelligence and the advantage of a great education, and he’s succeeded in every field he’s entered. Did the elite school open doors for him? Not in the sense of the name, or the network. But the education he received was truly excellent, wide-ranging, mind-expanding; it made him what he is today. I don’t know if he would have been as successful had he attended another school. He would have been different. That doesn’t mean he hasn’t worked as hard as anyone else, either–just going to an elite school doesn’t hand you anything, and I think some people think it does. To do well at an elite school means you’ve competed successfully with smart people, and if you do that in college you’re likely to continue.

The company he works for now hires the cream of the cream (yes, it’s finance-related), but they look for sheer talent. That smart people often come from elite colleges means that those graduates are well-represented, but getting in the door on the strength of your alma mater doesn’t mean you’ll get the job. But it’s true that a candidate from a less-well-known school might have to make a compelling case to get interviewed. There are no absolutes, is what I’m saying.

No guarantees, either.

“Hey, Hunt, what’s the best restaurant in the Washington, D.C. area?”
“Well, there are lots of great restaurants, with all different kinds of food. What do you like to eat?”
“I like any kind of food; what I want is the very best restaurant in D.C., out of all the restaurants there.”
“Well, it depends on who you ask.”
“I’m asking you.”
“Well, I haven’t been to the place that was top-rated by Washingtonian this year. So although it’s supposed to be the best by their criteria, I haven’t been there.”
“So what’s the best place you’ve been to?”
“Gosh, It’s so hard to say–I mean, Rasika is an incredible Indian restaurant, Fiola has great Italian food…”
“HUNT, WHAT IS THE BEST PLACE YOU’VE BEEN TO EAT IN WASHINGTON???”
“O.K. It was Inn at Little Washington.”

So in other words–it depends.

Oh but Hunt, that’s in a terrible neighborhood. Not quite as terrible as downtown New Haven or West Philadelphia, but pretty terrible compared to my gated community with one acre minimum zoning.

And have you ever tried to park there? Goodness, it’s worse than in Cambridge.

And the prices? Only an idiot would pay those kind of prices for an entree you can get at Trader Joe’s. Sure you have to microwave the frozen entree from TJ’s but c’mon, I’m saving my money for a really nice meal 5 years from now and everyone knows that TJ’s is just as good.

Well, you’re right about the prices–they were astronomical. It’s actually in a quaint little town pretty far from Washington.

Well, no, my point was more that if you pin me down, I do have an opinion about what the actual “best” restaurant overall is in Washington, D.C.–at least in terms of places I’ve been. Of course, it still depends…but the concept of overall best is not meaningless.

Actually, Sir Hunt, that “it depends” was for #390.

I think elite schools are, indeed, “better” than non-elite schools in the broad sense of the word (as long as one doesn’t get overly pretentious - “lower Ivy” and all that nonsense) and I do think they open more potential opportunities, but the older I get the more I realize how much gumption and personality matter in the hiring world too. And I still think it’s silly to think that certain jobs are prized by anyone other than the people who are specifically gunning for those jobs.

Legacies don’t tend to be poorly qualified. By definition, they’re the children of graduates of elite colleges. They usually grow up in upper-middle-class or wealthy families, attend good schools, and receive encouragement and support in their academic and extracurricular pursuits. Kids like this tend to be good candidates for elite colleges anyway. They just happen to have an admissions advantage at one or two of those colleges.

I’m not particularly a fan of legacy preferences (although one of my kids did choose to attend my alma mater), but I don’t think they do a lot of harm. They just affect the distribution of a bunch of kids who are going to end up at highly selective colleges anyway.

If a certain elite college (say, my alma mater, Cornell) stopped having legacy preferences, it wouldn’t mean that masses of offspring of Cornell graduates would suddenly find themselves at community colleges. More likely, it would mean that fewer of them would attend Cornell and more would enroll at other schools of similar selectivity and reputation, such as Northwestern or Brown or WashU or Rice.

I find it difficult to get worked up over whether a kid ends up at Cornell vs. Northwestern.

The Inn at Little Washington is worth every penny. Especially if you go whole hog and get a room so you don’t have to drive home

I’m taking my wife there for our anniversary next month. The room is just way too much money for my budget. We may stay at one of other inns in town.

Wait-#398 and #399-what?

Did I miss something?