I was thinking about Google’s “humility” idea, as well as a desire for people who are good collaborators, and I do have to say that being collaborative may not be one of the strongest characteristics of students at elite schools. As I said above, the trend is more toward competitive, self-driven students who typically have impressive individual achievements (as opposed to the achievements of a group or a team). Admission is so competitive, that it’s inevitable that those with individual, measurable achievements are more likely to get in than those who don’t have them. Even “leadership” is not necessarily the same as being able to work will in a collaborative process.
But I think it may be a lot harder to find those really smart and capable but collaboration-minded people. This may not show easily on a resume.
@joanneB there are lots of people who agree with you . Most of them dont come to CC unfortunately @TheGFG your friends son should quit his job. You should tell your friend that if you care about them . Also pure capitalism is awful. You should go rent the Michael Moore movie on capitalism . The current system has lead to destructive income inequality
And the replacement for capitalism would be what exactly? The planned economies of China and former Soviet Union (and North Korea now) did/are doing such a good job feeding their people???
@blossom take the time to watch Michael Moores movie I heard Bill Clinton speak about a government business partnership That seems to work well The elite schools may have competitive students but the institutions themselves seem to have their sights set on collaboration for the most part
What you’re sort of implying here though is that elite schools admit X-type students, while non-elite schools admit Y-type students. In reality it’s not so mutually exclusive… Both X- and Y- type students exist at non-elite schools, while few, if any, Y-type students are at elite schools.
Furthermore, good leaders listen to their followers. Collaborative (to a degree) leaders tend to be the best leaders, while individual (dictator) leaders tend to be the worse.
The humility and collaborative components are key. DS’s both comment that, unlike those awful group projects in HS and college where one or 2 people do all the work and carry the load for the slackers who are full of excuses, everyone does more than their share- they all not only do what they are responsible for, but ask what else they can do to be of help. How refreshing. Quite unlike the cut throat environments.
Well, my .02 as a nurse is that the surgeons are by a landslide the ones with the worst I’m God syndrome. Oncologists are reminded on a daily basis that they don’t know everything.
I worth with a small group of surgeons, and only one is a jerk. But he is a MAJOR one, so it colors my impressions.
And I chose my neurosurgeon based on my hospital experiences with him: he is incredibly good, and he also happens to be a total sweetheart.
A neurosurgeon does not need to be cocky. However, if he is a great surgeon, he doesn’t necessarily have to be a sweetheart.
florida26 - thanks. You know what Stalin said, a capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang him with. A lot of truth to that.
skrlvr - read between the lines. I didn’t say Google stopped hiring at elite colleges, I said they are no longer just focusing on elite colleges, your quotes said they are now hiring even people who didn’t go to college.
blossom - there are certainly megalomaniacs in every field, especially in entertainment and pro sports. In the business world, they are especially prevalent in certain industries such as IB, MC and many successful IT firms…firms that insist they “hire the best” and those that put interviewees through hours of torturous mind benders and brain teasers - many who got through these interviews think they’re the smartest and continue the tradition of torture on future interviewees. It’s the nerd world’s fraternity pledge. Of course I’ve also met nice people in these firms, but the nice ones often get out before they get to the top, esp. in MC with the move up or out pyramid scheme.
These days the only job I want is to work for the federal government! Good health and dental. No matter what I do or don’t do, I don’t get fired. Promotion is by seniority so there’s no competition. Just punch the clock and collect my paycheck until I retire. Then I get pension, until the next life. Ambition is overrated, an empty brain is a happy brain. LOL.
Those sweet federal pensions are only in the old system, from what I understand. They no linger have those same pension deals. But my )+(&^$#()^ BIL managed to get himself “retired” out of a federal job (euphemism for canned-- got pushed into retirement or his job would have magically been “downsized”.) It takes talent to lose a job with the feds. But not impossible.
When my oldest daughter needed a neurosurgeon, the family had a meeting with the neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon said, “4-5 percent of patients have complications from this surgery. It is one percent with my patients. I am cocky! You want cocky!”.
I answered, “I do”.
They aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive, but there is a difference between hyper-competitiveness and self confidence.
I want self-confidence in people I am counting on. I want my kids to be self confident. Not over the top crazy. Self confident.
The media esp. NYT, Washington Post etc. like to focus on “elite” schools, and over exaggerate their importance. People on CC also seem to have a bias for elite private schools. Here’s a direct answer to the OP’s question:
This WSJ journal article published in 2010 says employers favor state schools over Ivy Leagues for entry level positions:
“Of the top 25 schools as rated by these employers, 19 were public, one was Ivy League (Cornell University) and the rest were private, including Carnegie Mellon and University of Notre Dame.”
“The research highlighted a split in perception about state and private schools. Recruiters who named an Ivy League or elite liberal-arts school as a top pick say they prize their graduates’ intellect and cachet among clients, as well as “soft skills” like critical thinking and communication. But many companies said they need people with practical skills to serve as operations managers, product developers, business analysts and engineers. For those employees—the bulk of their work force—they turn to state institutions or other private schools offering that.”
@JoanneB I wonder how many of my prestige hunting peers on this site feel about that list. I certainly considered it when applying to college, though I only applied to 1 in the top 25 :P.
I’m sure their response would be something along the lines of “But wait, I need IVY. IVY is everything. IVY is my life. Long live IVY!”
@JoanneB I wonder whether appropriate steps were taken to adjust for the effect of school size when compiling that list.
Most of the schools in that top 25 are large – some are downright huge. Cornell, for example, is by far the largest of the Ivies, and I wonder whether it’s that factor that accounts for its presence on the list and the absence of the other Ivies.
Right. Those snobbish, elitist ivy grads would never deign to take an entry level job, even if the job had the word “engineer” in the title (cue sarcasm music).
^^^many Ivy and top school grads don’t want those jobs, firstly, and secondly, they graduate far fewer numbers each year than Penn State and Texas A&M, so it makes sense that big companies who want to fill chairs recruit at those schools. Many Ivy et al grads go on to professional or grad school and work in academia and have no interest in being a mid level lifer at some company.
