<p>Wow… I didn’t expect this much of a debate! lol… I do have to say as a musician myself I was stunned at the comment “any decent musician should have little trouble with that class.” … I went to all-state 6 years, Governor’s Honors, played in a professional symphony, and I think I would struggle with the level that this particular class goes into. The boy does great with theory in general - he knows modes I had never heard of, and blows everything out of the water in the other parts of his theory class. My primary gripe is that if he is understanding his instructor correctly, he can have 100 percents on his written work, all his homework, all his computer tests, but even if he sings all his major, minor, harmonic solfege, AND gets all his intervals, all his Bach tonal harmony, does his conducting thingy, if he misses one little part of one section, he fails. The whole class. That seems a bit excessive to me. Sorry. He’s much more than a “decent” musician. But that would freak me out a little.
Also, I still don’t see the application for a jazz performance major. I can see where it would help orchestral or music ed, and the like, but jazz people are a different breed. So yes, I do think it should be part of (not the totality) of selecting a school.
That being said, I found some good exercises just in time for him to tell me, he doesn’t need help any more.</p>
<p>That’s funny, Shellybean, and that always seems to be how it goes…we parents are always thinking about our last conversation with our student, and meanwhile they have sailed on through and are onto something new!</p>
<p>Data point: University of Michigan School of Music = fixed do</p>
<p>This post got us talking about that, too! Very interesting.</p>
<p>The problem is that solfege is started way too late in the US. It’s started in Europe between the ages of 5 and 8 so it’s never perceived as threatening! It takes a lot of practice, and just like language acquisition, the earlier it’s started, the easier it is to pick up.</p>
<p>My S is a voice perf major and, after his freshman year at college, went back and specifically thanked his jr high and hs choir directors for making them learn all their music and sightread with solfege. He said that so many kids were struggling with it and he was just breezing through his theory and ear training classes. </p>
<p>I am so thrilled that my son’s choir director has taught solfege. It is going to serve S well as he continues onto music in college.</p>
<p>CIM= fixed “do”</p>
<p>Music theory and solfege both can vary greatly between programs, my S had significant theory and solfege work in pre college, but when he got to his current school they teach it differently, for example some of the things that would be advanced solfege at his old program is taught as part of theory…tracks differ, and even terminology can differ, depending on where you go. It is one of the reasons people often suggest not placing out of theory 1 and such, because of that. It is interesting with fixed do and perfect pitch, as GH said, my son’s solfege teachers in pre college, knowing he had perfect pitch, made it deliberately so when resolving pitches (if I understand the term correctly, this is on me, I know little of solfege), he couldn’t build it from his knowledge of the base pitch, he had to do it using relative pitches…anyway, what this highlights is a lot of things in music vary from teacher to teacher and program to program, while teachers across schools might use similar terminology and such, or teach theory in a certain order, etc, there is no guarantee they will do so. </p>
<p>I found this thread very interesting and enlightening. I have questions…</p>
<p>~What happens if a student learns theory and solfege one way during undergrad, but then wants to go to a grad program that teaches the other way? Might that grad school /conservatory think the student isn’t prepared for their program and therefore decline accepting the student?</p>
<p>~What if a student learns one way, but then gets a job teaching at a high school or college that uses the other method? Will that music teacher have the skills to teach the other way?</p>
<p>I was previously unfamiliar with the terms ‘movable do’ and ‘fixed do’, so I hope my questions make sense and you knowledgeable people can answer/explain. Thanks!</p>
<p>My understanding is that most MM programs (if not all) give a placement test. You may find yourself re-doing theory/ear training from scratch in grad school. My daughter stayed in the same place for grad school (after seriously considering other admission offers). She chose because she loves her program and her teachers, but it’s an added bonus that, having finished the theory sequence, she can put her energies into her music and into the interesting, advanced courses she is taking in grad school. Her friends who switched institutions are taking music history and theory courses. It was never a factor in her decision, but it’s nice that she doesn’t have to redo (<–no pun intended!) those courses. Of course, if she pursues further grad studies elsewhere, she might be retaking courses again.</p>
<p>S is taking music theory at the CC and I was able to casually quiz him today. They are using “moveable” and he couldn’t imagine that fixed was even a thing because moveable is so utilitarian and fixed would defeat the whole purpose of using it. Hmmmmm . . . He did a good job of explaining it to a complete newby though. Now I need to go back and try to find out how the schools on his list teach.</p>
<p>One of the reasons they used fix, if i understood my S correctly, is that moveable only works on tonal pieces that don’t shift modulation and stay in the same key…if I read his comments correctly, moveable do would not work with atonal music and I suspect a lot of modern classical music…this is when you also get into the realm where music is generally about relative pitch and relative intervals, and where I tend to get lost,fast:)</p>
<p>Ha! Maybe the lack of utility in atonal music is a sign 
I’m sure that’s what the kid would say.</p>
<p>Good points, but I still think all the issues would be resolved if all simply taught the actual names of notes and sharp, flat, double sharp, etc. The other is just some suzuki-esque thing that I don’t think does anything except create problems. Of course, I’m not in charge of the world. (dramatic sigh) — But I do vote for real names/letters.
It would be kind of neat to find out, sort of unofficially, what schools use what, but I’m not sure I’m up to maintaining a list. Middle Tennessee - Fixed, by the way. And he’s doing really well now, btw. He was always my kid that would panic if he missed one problem out of fifty in math. Thought he’d fail. His life was over. …I should be used to this.
As always, guys, you have made me feel better and given me (and everyone else) much to think about. :D</p>
<p>My daughter is learning movable in high school. I never learned solfege, but back when I was in high school and dinosaurs roamed the earth, we only learned how to sing the particular songs we were singing. It was an easy A back then!</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure the students at Juilliard, NEC, CIM, etc. know the names of the notes. ;)</p>
<p>Funny you should say that, glassharmonica…I told my son about this thread and asked his opinion to which he quipped that he hates solfege whether movable or fixed, just give him notes and numbers please and thank you ;)</p>
<p>He also claims that schools aren’t necessarily one or the other in actual practice, but that teachers are…</p>
<p>I wonder if solfege is easier for vocalists than for instrumentalists because they actually use it in practical ways. When my kids were in HS, I know that they learned all of their choral music with solfege first and were required to sing their “All State” sightreading pieces using solfege. However, as a bassoonist, I never used solfege, except in theory classes. </p>
<p>Probably . . . now ad one more twist and change your instrumentalist to a percussionist. Fun times.</p>
<p>@megpmom that is exactly true. Vocalists use it, instrumentalists use A,B,C,D, etc. Oh well. He ended up doing extremely well, once he compartmentalized name of note vs. solfege name. Thank you everyone for the input. It is to me very interesting which schools use which. </p>