"So Gay" Phrase Lands Santa Rosa Schools In Court

Parent Cafe
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I can see a school telling students that certain language that may be offensive is inappropriate for school and then giving some kind of detention to students who continue to use the language. Assuming the school had previously warned the girl or all the students about the rule against offensive language, and assuming the discipline was mild, I can’t imagine going to court over my child’s punishment. That seems really absurd to me.

Ah, yes. Supporting stereotypes is great for middle schoolers. Middle schools take these kids of actions all the time to try to cut down on bullying, stop actions that make other students feel belittled, or even encourage students to use better, more descriptive language. Schools stop students from swearing, making fun of people or groups or religions, making sexual comments, and hundreds of other things. If this was a single rule against certain language, my response would be different, but as is it just seems like an extension of many other rules common in middle schools.</p>

<p>I think we would be having a different discussion if young white students were being punished for reacting to crime/fights/tattoos/violence/abuse/poverty/etc. with “That’s so negro.”</p>

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<p>Oh, marite: I wasn’t referring to you in post 37 :)</p>

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<p>tisthetruth: It’s okay. No offense taken! :)</p>

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<p>I would really hope their values didn’t include not making any effort to not disrespect others. I don’t think it does. Maybe we all need to sometimes think about how our actions affect everyone else. No one is perfect. I’m not saying I am.</p>

<p>I guess in the end I really just don’t understand. That’s it. I don’t really care if other people choose to be disrespectful. It’s not like I can control them. But I just don’t get it. It’s an intuitive thing to me - this just isn’t right. Every attempt to make it right just seems very contrived, i.e. is “lame” any better? Well, you know, to be honest, it comes down to connotation. Logic doesn’t always lead me to a direction I think is practical in terms of everyday reality. I think sometimes in life though, it can be enough that something just doesn’t feel right, and that makes it not right. This is just my personal moral system. I’ll share it in light of the topic at hand. </p>

<p>Part of what bothers me, I think, this is not my main issue by a long shot, is that these words are just used as crutch words to complain so often in such a negative manner. Does every other thing really need the reaction “that’s so gay”? People don’t even think before they say these things. It starts around middle school age; people say these things to fit in and be cool. Then it just becomes a habit. Like swearing. If people want to swear, that’s fine with me. It’s not my thing and I never really got why people are so eager to form the habit. It doesn’t really seem to add all that much to your life, but I don’t know. </p>

<p>I just think people should consider it. I’ve seen these discussions “convert” more than a few people. They realize that they don’t really agree with what they’re saying, and that they only said it in the first place because everyone else did too. Freedom of speech is great, and if “that’s gay” and “that’s ■■■■■■■■” are truly the means through which someone is compelled to express themself, to make a statement about themself, then great. Do it. But if that’s not true and you just say it mindlessly without really considering what’s behind your words, you’re probably not just disrespecting others. You’re probably disrespecting yourself too.</p>

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<p>Princedog–very, very well said.</p>

<p>This is not a really a debate on what should be punished, or how, even if the original story laid it out that way. It’s how best to speak with integrity and respect for others, as well as ourselves.</p>

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This is true about how it starts but it’s not fine with me. I don’t like what the common language is becoming and the complete lack of respect for others by people who swear in public and make statements such as the the one that’s the topic of this thread.</p>

<p>I was on a bus once with my family when my kids were very young and had several late teens/early twenties guys next to us who were speaking very loudly to each other and using a certain choice 4 letter word as a noun, adjective, and every other part of speech. I could tell I wasn’t the only one not thrilled with it as there were other families on-board. I finally politely asked them if they could please tone down the language explaining there were young children and elderly ladies on-board. I think at first they were shocked anyone would actually say anything to them and I sincerely think they had no idea that their speech could have been a problem. One of them came back after a few minutes with “freedom of speech - man” and I responded with “freedom of not having to listen to that language and common courtesy for others” and said the bus trip is only going to be another 5 minutes and couldn’t they refrain for that period of time? They actually quit for the remainder of the trip and I was happy when they left.</p>

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<p>“Part of what bothers me, I think, this is not my main issue by a long shot, is that these words are just used as crutch words to complain so often in such a negative manner. Does every other thing really need the reaction “that’s so gay”? People don’t even think before they say these things. It starts around middle school age; people say these things to fit in and be cool. Then it just becomes a habit. Like swearing. If people want to swear, that’s fine with me. It’s not my thing and I never really got why people are so eager to form the habit. It doesn’t really seem to add all that much to your life, but I don’t know.”</p>

<p>Excellent post Princedog. </p>

<p>(I can still see my kids rolling their eyes when they would come home with these ‘crutch words’ and phrases and I would tell them to ‘get some new nouns and verbs’.)</p>

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<p>By fine with me I mean that although I disagree with the choice I have to recognize that most people don’t see the harm in it and just don’t see any reason to change it. So they won’t. They feel it’s overly critical. So I say I am fine with them being allowed to have the choice of words to use, but that I’d encourage them to consider what they’re saying. </p>

<p>I think another problem with [what I consider] abusive language is that no matter how much the words get “devalued” by hearing them often, they still carry a lot of weight and are often used almost violently for shock value. I think getting into a string of swearing to express frustration can actually have the opposite effect of venting. It actually can get the person more worked up. I think most people don’t want to lower themselves to that level necessarily and they can actually be subconsciously disappointed with themselves for reacting that way and that just makes the frustration and pain worse. I think there are better ways to deal with frustration than abusive language. I’m getting beyond the scope of this discussion though.</p>

<p>Using it gratuitously in a situation like the one you describe also goes back to shock value though. People use it to show that they aren’t afraid. It’s amazing how much weight words can carry though. Most people justify it by saying “it’s just a word.” However, if that was true, the argument would self destruct. If it was just a word, they wouldn’t be so compelled to use it just to prove they can. I really think a lot of people know that others are offended by “■■■■■■■■” and “gay” and that sometimes, yes, they are just pushing the envelope to see if someone pushes back.</p>

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<p>"By fine with me I mean that although I disagree with the choice I have to recognize that most people don’t see the harm in it and just don’t see any reason to change it. So they won’t. "</p>

<p>I feel very differently. At the turn of the last century, most people probably felt very comfortable using the “n” word to refer to black people. Indeed, a common name for Brazil nuts was to call them “n” toes. </p>

<p>As a result of a lot of people speaking up, and other changes in society, most people don’t use such language. The same can happen with the use of “gay” to mean stupid or uncool, and the use of “■■■■■■■■” to mean something that a person thinks shouldn’t be done.</p>

<p>Anyway, I take a tougher stand than you. The use of such words is unacceptable to me. i don’t just advocate for people who use the words to think about what they are saying, I advocate for them to choose to use one of the large variety of nonoffensive words.</p>

<p>I have many friends who are gay, and I have a friend who is mentally ■■■■■■■■. Such people have been hurt enough by words, some of which were deliberately hurled, some of which were thoughtlessly said. I will do what I can to stop people from using words that could hurt other people.</p>

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<p>I guess those “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” days are long gone. :)</p>

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<p>Around here, it seems the word “sped” has replaced “■■■■■■,” as in “She’s such a sped.”</p>

<p>That one bothers me just as much as ■■■■■■.</p>

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<p>I was watching a program on Dwarfism the other day. They asked the people what word they liked to be called and they said dwarf- not midget- they felt midget meant they were less than “real” people</p>

<p>It may never have occured to people how that word could hurt, after all it was used for years, but it does hurt</p>

<p>I wouldnever have a law to stop people from using words, but I think as a society, and as parents, we need to evolve to where we can see how powerful words are, and while we may say, gee, why would that hurt, well if it does hurt that should be enough for caring, thinking people to adjust</p>

<p>We need to educate our children, teachers need to call kids on what they say, people need to call each other on what they say</p>

<p>One of my Ds friends, years ago, she was probably 7 used the word ■■■■■■. I said we don’t use that word in my house, instead we use other words to describe what she wanted to say…she was taken aback, and I am sure she whined to her mom, but at some point a person steps up</p>

<p>I think suing is going too far, in this case, however, it is a teachable momnet and if a gay student doesn’t feel safe in school, and if insults to who they are are thrown around willynilly without kids thinking about the hurt, that is when parents and teachers need to explain to the little darlings that there are many other words to use and the ones you are using now can hurt</p>

<p>My H is Irish, and he heard stupid mick his whole life from people in the north of Ireland. It is just what they said. It was slang. Did it make it right…no</p>

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<p>I’ve read a few other news accounts which put this incident into better context. A lot more going on than just calling someone a name…</p>

<p><a href=“http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070215/NEWS/702150338/1033/NEWS01[/url]”>http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070215/NEWS/702150338/1033/NEWS01&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=1581[/url]”>http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=1581&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I do find it somewhat ironic that one of the issues that concerned the family/student was that she was “teased” by other classmates as a result of the disciplinary referral she was given.</p>

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<p>HH, do you advocate racial epithets, or words such as “■■■■■■”?</p>

<p>The old sticks and stones days are past. There is no reason whatsoever to allow anyone to speak perjoratively to another person.</p>

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<p>Yeah, you know me, AM. I spend my days visiting kids with Down Syndrome just so I can get a few chances to call them ■■■■■■■. Actually, “sped” is my favorite. I also love spray painting epithets on mosques. You got me down.</p>

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<p>Well, just so we are clear then…;)</p>

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<p>Others perhaps: you–I’m not so sure.</p>

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—This, from a adult poster who has repeatedly complained bitterly that others have called her names, even when it hasn’t actually even happened. I guess the only names that are offensive are the ones directed at us.</p>

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<p>People–go back and read my other post, why don’t’cha. You’re lookin’ foolish here.</p>

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<p>If repeated often enough, especially to more vulnerable members of society, “names” that mock, ridicule, harass, “put down”, belittle, or offend become verbal abuse, which CAN be emotionally and psychologically damaging - whether intentional or not.</p>