I’ll hazard that most coaches are truthful, or at least truthy. They can’t overtly yank a player around because word will spread (in line with my thought that coaches rely on the grapevine). BUT, situations change. I’ve read about Cornell’s coach “rescinding” an offer but without a paper trail, it’s hard to tell if the player just heard what he wanted. It’s reported in the NESJ back in Dec-ish. And the player admitted to slacking so there’s that.
and h/t to @KeeperDad! I will have to go back and tag everyone.
My son just finished his soccer career at a D3 school in the NW. He attended a multi college camp at Colgate after his sophomore year in high school. I think it goes by the name “NE Elite” camp. It was staffed with various Div 1, 2, and 3 coaches. Each kid got a written evaluation at the end of the camp. It was eye opening for him to see and play against D1 athletes. It became clear to him that he wasn’t a D1 player physically pretty quickly that week. He focused his college search on D2, D3, and NAIA after that camp. I still have the evaluation, it said “D3 impact player right now”…which is funny to look back on as he was a 2 time 1st team all conference forward his junior and senior year and made 2nd team All West region as a senior as well. The icing on the cake was his team making the D3 NCAA tournament in 2018!
The other thing I encourage people to do is to look at the schools website when they publish the incoming soccer class bios. As I showed my son, the recruits at the rigorous academic D1 schools were generally 6’3", 190lbs, ran a 4.5 40, played on some DA or MLS Academy team, class valedictorian, started some community help program, etc. (Half joking). If you can read those profiles of the incoming recruits, and see your son as “equal” you have an idea what the coach is looking to bring into the program.
Also, look to see if freshman and/or sophomores get playing time. It is tough to go through a year or two of just practicing and not seeing the field. At D1 or D2 or NAIA it can be tough to see playing time right away. One of the reasons my son didn’t go to D2 Colorado School of Mines was he didn’t see himself playing until he was a junior at the earliest. Even on my son’s D3 team the coach usually only gets 5-6 freshman meaningful minutes each year.
D3 is unique in that since there is no money to be on the team, the coaches have to bring in bigger classes (say 10-14) so that they have upperclassmen down the road…as those that don’t get playing time the first year or two drop out. Keep in mind that regardless of division, the coach is always trying to bring in better players each year. So if you get playing time as a freshman it may not guarantee anything for the next season.
As to are coaches truthful, I’d say the good ones are! But as pointed out earlier, they need to have a large funnel to start and as they get commits, it is easier for them to be “straight” with you.
Happy to answer any other questions you might have… btw, my 2nd son is also playing soccer, NAIA school.
@cinnamon1212, with respect to trustworthy coaches, I think it is a fifty-fifty deal. I am sure there are some dishonest coaches, but more often than not, the complaints come from misunderstandings rather than outright dishonesty. I have heard tell of a number of kids who were told they could try out if they were admitted. Perhaps combine that with a coach statement that all the players tryout for the team, the kid (who is not being recruited) thinks he is. Or a kid gets a very encouraging email, but doesn’t continue the email communications promptly and on a regular basis, and two months later is surprised when the coach has found someone else.
I am sure that there are exceptions, but when asked direct questions the coaches usually answer truthfully. It often falls to the parents to ask the tough direct questions.
For example, when the coach says “you are one of my top recruits,” consider asking “what does that mean?” How many others are you considering? How many can you support with admissions? Will you agree to support little Joey with admissions? Will little Joey be admitted? Will little Joey have a roster spot? Any equivocation other than the usual, “I can’t guarantee admission, but it looks very positive” is a tip off. If the coach says “well, you see, you are on the bubble,” know what that means.
@cinnamon1212
Be very careful which men’s college soccer ID camps you attend and yes, watch the ages they accept. Impossible to show well when the talent is low. Also, are they truly recruiting from the camp or is it merely a fun camp for rec league type kids and a money maker for coaches? Find out before you pay $700.
For IVY:
** Princeton: An excellent well run camp attracting talented Academy & top Club players. Coach Barlow & Totten truly watch and evaluate the players . Large camp, but excellent. Overnight so coaches really get to know you and you get to know the school. Strong Academic D3 coaches coach at camp which is an added bonus.
** Yale attract talented players and hosts an AllStar game at its conclusion. Stannard is definitely watching. Great commuter camp with solid admission talks ect.
**Columbia gets strong players. Blunt coaches who basically say “don’t call us we will call you” after camp. So do not look for feedback from them. They definitely watch though and are looking for aggressive players.
I will update with more camp info later.
@2022soon wow, thanks for the info! My son attended the Williams and Middlebury camps this summer (one day) and those were great. (Soccer level still not amazing though, but better). Their coaches are definitely there and engaged, and I think camps are part of the process, but some parents didn’t seem to appreciate the odds/process. E.g. if a school has 5 days of id camps, and sees 40 kids each day, that’s 200 kids, and the coach has 7 spots (and not every recruit will be at a camp). So there’s a good chance that no one at a particular camp will end up getting an offer. Coaches at both camps gave good and specific feedback to my son, and I thought the camps were useful. We combine the camp with school tours and info sessions and I hope at the end of the summer my son will have a bit better of an idea of the type of school he is interested in. (He is going to larger schools near cities later in the summer )
On the question about ages of players at camps, and younger players “diluting” the quality of play – I agree it is important to research the format before committing. Depending on the size of the school/camp, there may be a camp office to call or email, or you may be able to get details from the Assistant Coach. Being in the midwest, a lot of kids we know attend Notre Dame overnight camp, typically around 150 kids a camp, which is open to incoming 7th-12th graders, but the 7th-9th graders train and play separately from the 10th-12th graders. On the other hand, school-specific camps, particularly smaller ones, may have a blend of age groups training and playing because there aren’t enough bodies to field age-specific teams. I’ve said it before, so my apologies, but we were not prepared for the “regional-ness” of D3 recruiting since we were “outsiders,” coming from the midwest without an accessible Academy program. At some of the NESCAC, Liberty League and Centennial schools which my kid visited, met with coach, been invited to camp etc., the coaches at camp clearly had a short list of campers based on Academy matches they’d seen. For other campers to get noticed, a player needed a break-out performance which is a lot of pressure. I thought it helped that we scheduled several day or week long break between camps for recovery and started with some low-key, “practice” camps. We saw some of the same kids at multiple camps over the summer who did not build in breaks and by the end of July, those kids were wiped out and just hurting themselves since they didn’t have anything left “in the tank.”
@cinnamon1212@Midwestmomofboys
My son started the D1 camps in earnest last year (one or two even the prior year) and met many NESCAC coaches there. Honestly once you go to enough of those camps the coaches know you, even without academy, (and we are not from that area at all) if you are a strong player. The Middlebury Coach is a class act my son says. Most of the coaches have been great. After each of the D1’s he has heard from the NESCAC coaches in attendance afterwards. He always replies back to every one of them, regardless of interest. This includes showcases as well. It’s an awful lot of emailing, but he always lets them know why it’s not a great fit (location, major,size etc) and thanks them for their interest. Or let’s them know he wants to look into it some more. He’s glad he replied to all, because he always ends up seeing them again! Before attending the D1 ID camps he has already been sending multiple highlight videos (with new video in the subject line), academic updates and more test scores (he tested early this year) so they know him. Most of them correspond back, some more often than others. So he never went in to a camp “cold” and felt like he was always watched. He has gotten better this year about introducing himself to each coach casually throughout the first day of camp. He always followed up afterwards by email and any possible feedback in person as well. @Midwestmomofboys is definitely right about carefully separating out camps to avoid overuse injury and show your best. It’s been a little more challenging this important year to do it as it’s pretty much make or break time. We have never done a camp as practice, because we don’t want to waste the time or money. We will see how it all works out, he’s very picky and has passed up some great opportunities-but he gives full effort before after and during camp, so I’m really hoping one of his favorites works out for him. He is good at researching coaches/rosters and quick to pick up on when assistants have left. Very common this year! Always Always copy all coaches on emails. He also stays in touch with some of the better players afterwards and they compare notes. Different positions of course. I’l check in when this is over one way or the other for him, and share anything else we learned. And yes! Visits at every camp are smart because you just never know how it will all work out! Also, if you are interested in D3 and reach out ahead to Princeton or other camp coaches they will be able to tell you ahead who is signed up to coach. Just put “camp question” in the subject line. I know Princeton had Connecticut College, U Chicago and some other NESCAC coaches coaching teams in the past. Same coach over a few days. Great way for your player to get to know coaches. I was impressed with the effort they put in and the relationships they made with the players.
*Also changing that subject line in coaches emails is so important as is. being brief (boys are good at that,ha) and informative. My son’s emails were honestly so bad at first. But now much improved!
The coaches at Williams and Midd: I would not hesitate a nanosecond to endorse them. The Williams coach wrote the most insightful and articulate feedback (out of all communications my son had during his recruiting experience) after scouting him at a DA showcase his junior year (my son had emailed him to signal interest). The Midd coach is class. Son went to camps at both those schools and liked them both. He slept to and from the drive to Midd so still has no idea where it is geographically but he really liked the town (go figure). There are many excellent choices in NESCAC and I think those coaches talk a lot amongst themselves about players so the camps are great opportunities to demonstrate interest in addition to the showcases for various leagues.
As I recall, the pre-reads for NESCAC are just done or maybe still on-going in mid-July with offers to rising seniors emerging between now and the fall (though I’ve heard of offers coming once dust settles from ED and coaches plug holes and look to scoop up players who “fall” from some D1 situation that didn’t work out with the admissions office). One NESCAC coach mentioned to me that they were trying to hold off until late Aug, I think to give the kids some breathing room and to avoid coaches rushing to judgement (?). Anyways, it can be an anxious few weeks so best to all.
Ive been watching this and other soccer threads… just curious if others would be willing to share at what level their son is playing - ie DA, ENPL, NL, NLC, etc… I am trying to gauge where others are both level of play and area. S22 isn’t sure he wants to play in college - our state flagship - his first choice- doesn’t have mens soccer. But he’s listed on a couple of recruiting sites and definitely has coaches reaching out. (I know this isn’t special) but we just don’t know whether to pursue it or not.
@SATXMom2 Perhaps the easiest way to identify athletic matches is to look at the bios of rostered players at schools of interest. Many bios identify the club, team, state and regional championships, and other athletic awards from high school years. Many bios also identify height/weight – which can be useful for figuring out whether a team’s starters are all 6ft+ or whether there are slim, smaller guys who are starters. With that being said, my D3 kid played MRL as we are 2-3 hours from an Academy program.
People get hung up on the DA soccer hype. There’s an enormous amount of talent outside the Development Academy. Some players simply can’t travel to the nearest DA club due to geography. Others would rather not give up high school soccer. Many are multi-sport athletes that would never consider specializing in just soccer.
A bit off-topic, but to take @GKUnion’s comment one step further - there are plenty of D1 caliber kids playing D3 - for many the same reasons… play multiple sports, don’t want to devote as much time to their sport, etc.
I would think that, better than knowing where our sons are playing, the best information about whether your son could/should play in college would be a coach’s assessment. If not one of his own coaches, then at an ID camp. In this case, perhaps a large multi school camp would be useful, if they say they give written evaluations to everyone. That might answer the question can he play in college; but still leaves does he want to play in college.
@SATXMom2 I think if he is not certain if he wants to play college soccer, that answers your question. It takes a tremendous amount of time and dedication. @GKUnion I totally agree with you. Plenty of equally talented players not on DA teams due to Geography. Some end up making it to top teams. Some coaches are hung up on DA’s and pick from there and also group their teams with players from camp like that. IVY League is definitely big on DA’s. I think the best coaches are able to evaluate a player based on their play alone.
@AmBuddha yes and without a doubt when it comes to the IVY League, Princeton’s men’s soccer coaches have the best reputation with evaluating at camps in an equal way, running an excellent camp, providing appropriate feed back to players, returning emails, consistent coaching staff, etc The gold standard. Impressive from a coach that also won the IVY league this year.
Yale men’s soccer ID camp:
Great coaches, good admission talk and solid competition are the positives of this camp. It’s a commuter camp, so the parent will have to travel, but the camp is very welcoming to parents and extremely well run. The downside to this camp is the teams are not evenly split and “Pool games” (All Star Games) are clearly chosen ahead of camp. If you are a strong player and hoping to play for Yale, you may be put on a lower level team and not realistically have a chance. You can only play so well if you are surrounded by weaker players. If you are a top player AND play on a top Academy team you may be ok. If you are a top player on a club team, you will not be truly seen as the coaches watch the full sided games of the top teams. Evaluations are given by the team coaches, but they are pretty basic and can only evaluate you based on your play with the team you are assigned. Again, you may be given a weaker team. You can not score if the ball never makes it past the middle. The Princeton camp offers more evenly divided teams where the head coaches truly evaluate all of the players. One team is not evaluated more than another. Yale runs a strong camp. Think about what you are looking for before attending. If you are looking to play for Yale and are not already a top recruit, it’s unlikely you will be able to showcase your skills. There are other camps where teams are split evenly and the hosting school truly watches all of the games.
@2022soon You know those commercials where the guy asks his neighbor if he knows any good contractors, the neighbor replies in the affirmative, so the guy asks him to get 5 estimates, evaluate them and let him know…?
Can you please have your son attend a cross section of decent D1 & D3 camps this fall and report back?
Echoing @GKUnion ! Thank you so much @2022soon this is so incredibly valuable!! We are attending Tufts and Brown this week and I will see if I can provide some feedback for the board when we get back. Though @2022soon is a hard act to follow!
