<p>People can have different values, but our values do not need to be the “standard” for everyone. It is offensive to me when people want to project their values to other people (I drive my car until it dies, if you buy a new car every few years then you must be living beyond your means). My kids thought they had a fairly charm life, but in speaking with some of their friends they realized we were no where close to some of those families. I tell my kids to just nod and smile when their friends talk about private planes or villa in Tuscany. Just because we don’t live such life style it doesn’t make it wrong for others to do so. There is nothing vulgar about a family who could afford large diamond, private plane or having multiple homes. </p>
<p>I have nothing in common with many posters on this forum, but it is still interesting to me to learn their point of view, as long as it is not offensive.</p>
Is hanging out with people whose values are different something to avoid? If they express those differences without resorting to insults, I’ll probably learn more from them than I can from people with whom I already agree. </p>
<p>I can’t say I’ve ever felt “forced” to hang out with particular CCers. I can choose to avoid certain topics, which I do. I can officially ignore certain posters, which I haven’t - yet (though I have been sorely tempted). And I suppose I can even go do something in real life instead of reading here, though that usually is not as entertaining.</p>
<p>I can definitely see this question asked among friends/acquaintances involved in political activism at my college when I attended and now. Then again, that would be after they’d get over the shock of seeing someone in such circles actually show up wearing diamonds considering other issues such as the commercialism and being “too bourgeois”. </p>
<p>From what I’ve seen, showing up to such circles with a diamond or similar upper/upper-middle class establishment associative outfit/accessory would be as gauche as showing up to a congratulatory Ibanking/Biglaw/Fortune 500 exec bonus celebration wearing a Che Guevara/Mao Zedong T-shirt while waving around red banners calling for the overthrow of “bourgeois capitalist tools” or a reporter showing up filming this event:</p>
<p>…and having the nerve to refuse to delete/turn over the video to club members/leaders upon request when found out. </p>
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<p>Kind of like nearly every residential college’s purported ideal of their given college campus community…even if it could be more marketing and lip service at times. :)</p>
<p>^You are correct, MomofJandL. I should have said “e.g.” But you should have put some punctuation at the end of that sentence. :)</p>
<p>In any case, I don’t think paying full freight at a private college (if one can afford it) is vulgar in any way. </p>
<p>My earlier comment that provoked such scorn was in response to this statement by bevhills:
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<p>By saying this, bevhills is dismissing “people who don’t want big diamonds” for whatever reason as “other.” I don’t see why her implied criticism is OK but mine is not. </p>
<p>Have to say I love that post!!! Almost choked on my coffee, lol.</p>
<p>Sometimes threads devolve into the “I’m more frugal than thou” contests. Some people who state that they have been very blessed financially will then seem moved to add “but I drive an old car!” As though it’s immoral to have nice things when they can afford to have nice things all while saving for college, planning for retirement, and giving back to the community. </p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with a woman who has a large diamond, whether it is the original one her DH gave her when they got engaged, or whether it was an “upgrade” given at a later time. I’ve enjoyed oohing and ahhing over many a friend’s ring over the years. Personally, I’d love to have a “big-asssss” emerald cut diamond ring, but the size I’d want would probably cost more than I’d want to invest, so I just admire my friend’s emerald cut rock instead whenever I see her. </p>
<p>The only problem I have with diamonds are when a woman demands something she knows her fiance cannot afford and expects him to go into debt to get it for her as proof of his devotion. It’s a personal opinion kind of thing and I don’t think it bodes well for the couple’s future. </p>
<p>I expect in those cases the woman may have criteria regarding career & income for her sig other before it even gets to the point of engagement.<br>
Although she may have also fallen in love with someone who is making good money, but also thinks spending big money on adornments is guilding the lily. </p>
<p>But questioning someone’s wearing or desiring diamonds is not always about frugality. For some, it’s a litmus test to see how committed/informed a given person is about the political activist causes so said individual doesn’t undermine the causes by coming across as a hypocrite or the appearance of it depending on the activist organization and cause*. </p>
<p>One thing I’ve noticed when I’m with my activist friends…including married ones is how they either never wear diamonds or other forms of jewelry signalling upper/upper-middle class tastes/aspirations or they find ways to hide it well. And it’s not about frugality considering most of the ones I knew…especially from college did come from upper/upper-middle class homes where they/their parents could easily afford diamonds and jewelry along such lines if they were so inclined and didn’t feel the need to show solidarity with the political activist causes they’re in. </p>
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<li>Like the case with celebrities who pull faux pas like giving a presentation on environmentalist or animal rights for the activist organization wearing a fur coat…especially from an endangered species.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>“But questioning someone’s wearing or desiring diamonds is not always about frugality. For some, it’s a litmus test to see how committed/informed a given person is about the political activist causes so said individual doesn’t undermine the causes by coming across as a hypocrite or the appearance of it depending on the activist organization and cause*.”</p>
<p>Cobrat, what your friends - who apparently have few to no social graces - don’t seem to understand that it’s fundamentally not anyone else’s business. No one needs to “prove” their commitment to a cause to anyone else. You continually post about how your friends feel some need to “test” others to ensure that they conform to a certain narrow set of values and heaven forbid they have anything “bourgeois.” Your friends sound tiresome and nosy. </p>
<p>I don’t think I need to defend my daughter for what she wants as her engagement ring. This is a woman who has saved all of her bonus money, is considering putting money in 529, and is asking her BF to pay down his student loans as fast as possible. At the same time, she is not going to marry someone who may think it is frivolous for her to have a certain size of diamond as an engagement ring. From posts I have seen on CC, there are people who may think it is a vulgar to wear expensive jewelry whether they could afford it or not. If D1’s BF (or his family) has such a view then they wouldn’t be a good match. </p>
<p>My BIL was going to get the ring my sister wanted for the engagement. It was well within what he could afford, but his family told him it was not necessary to spend so much. He ended up getting a ring of poor quality. My sister never really wore it and at some point she lost the ring. Her son just got engaged recently. My sister helped out with the ring so he could get something nice for his fiance.</p>
<p>f D1’s BF (or his family) has such a view then they wouldn’t be a good match.</p>
<p>That’s a good point.
Always get to know the family, because no matter how independent the son or daughter is, and how different their views from their parents, those views are the base of their upbringing.
Not to say you can’t make it work if their family has different values- for instance, my inlaws disagreed with saving money for college, because they didn’t think it was necessary. However both our girls graduated from college, and their grandparents even were in attendance! But it does make it more challenging.</p>
<p>oldfort, why doesn’t your daughter just buy herself the engagement ring she wants? She sounds very successful. If her BF has student loans, he likely doesn’t have $XX thousand lying around for something like a ring. I completely understand her having certain expectations, but to him–coming from a different background–a piece of jewelry probably does seem “frivolous.”</p>
<p>It can be hard if the two parties come from different socioeconomic levels. This became really apparent to me when my college BF and I decided to live together and then get married. Like your D, I had no student loans, worked hard and saved what I could. My BF came from a poor family that had made one bad and costly financial decision after another, and he was up to his eyeballs in student loans (eventually, not just undergrad but two rounds of grad school as well). His grandmother had a modest diamond that we had a jeweler make into an engagement ring, but otherwise there either wouldn’t have been one or it would have had to come from a family piece on my side. I would have been fine either way, even though there was some social pressure at that time to have a big diamond to flaunt among one’s peers.</p>
<p>Her BF also has a good job. He has a nice apartment and spends money on his ECs. He can save up for the ring by cutting out on other spends or just use some of his bonus money. D1 could buy the ring, but she would be the only one contributing to the union. As a parent, I don’t want it to be one sided, he needs to “value” my daughter enough to save up for the ring. </p>
Almost choked on my coffee, lol.</p>