<p>Thursday, May 13, 2004</p>
<p>In admissions, many get ‘special’ attention </p>
<p>[Washington</a> Week . Student Voices | PBS](<a href=“http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/voices/200405/0513local1.html]Washington”>http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/voices/200405/0513local1.html)</p>
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<p>From the Dartmouth Online</p>
<p>Ivy League reconsiders role of athletics in admissions
By Karla Kingsley, The Dartmouth Staff </p>
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<p>And without college sports, I wouldn’t be able to learn what I want to learn! Nothing like hands-on clinical experience when it comes to athletic training!</p>
<p>And yes we are useful to those outside of the Athletics relm too!!</p>
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Maybe not rigorous, but applying the same logic prevents Kenyon from balancing gender (they do AA for males), prevents a school filling an orchestra from doing AA for an oboist, prevents a school from admitting their desired number of high school newspaper editors, prevents a school from admitting enough experienced debaters to field a competitive team, etc. It prevents the crafting of classes, which is how some schools maintain their specific culture.</p>
<p>Not a parent of an athlete, so as Curm would say, I don’t have a dog in this fight. However, this is march madness (not only for basketball) so over the next couple of days there will be posts regarding athletes, URMs, legacies, purple people and what ever who supposedly took someone’s spot and was admitted using a lower standard. This also only becomes an issue at a handful of schools, with students (and their parents) negating the fact that there are close to 4000 colleges and universities in the U.S.</p>
<p>listed below are the recent bowl games and the results of those games:</p>
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<p>It is safe to say that if anyone is going to leave school and go to the professional, the chances are greater for a player coming out of one of these football powerhouse schools.</p>
<p>Where is the outrage that footbal player was admitted with “lower academic standards” at Florida Atlantic, Tulsa 63, Alabama, Clemson , Auburn and any other school listed. I am quite sure that all of them have given their student base a great education (if it was the student’s desire to obtain one). </p>
<p>However, this is only an issue with HYPS other ivies + name your “elite school”. With the exception of Stanford & Duke (who has already been bounced from the big dance this year), how many of these schools could remotely be considered football or basketball powerhouses? Yeah, the whole Harvard/ Yale team (while a good rivalry for the alums) are not going pro however the vast majority of them will graduate.</p>
<p>Just throwing it out there. Are we talking about sports recruiting at all schools or just a select (emphasis on select) few?</p>
<p>Going back to the OP’s original post, I don’t think you can compare the sports recruitment practices in the US with the admissions practices of Oxford and Cambridge. As a student at Oxford, I can say, absolutely unequivocally, that they are NOT trying to create a well-rounded class of students with diverse interests. That is simply not a goal in their admissions policies. </p>
<p>At Oxford the goal is to gather together a community of people who are enthusiastic and dedicated about their degree subjects. That’s all. The fact that many people have outside interests is totally irrelevant - the admissions tutors will most likely not even know about them, because the application does not ask for details about ECs. </p>
<p>Universities in the UK have a different mission to universities in the US, and admissions practices are therefore different. It’s comparing apples and oranges.</p>
<p>I think for a lot of folks when sports are mentioned it is assumed it is football or basketball (revenue sports). However, there are many other sports that are available at colleges and are recruited. These student very often have profiles that are equivalent to the student who get in without sports, so there is no reduction in quality of the student body through this process. And sometime earlier this year someone posted on another forum that Stanford’s football team had a fairly large number of NMS on it.</p>
<p>“I didn’t observe that any such assumptions were made, in fact I think he made it clear that he strongly supports a well rounded view of admissions that looks at all aspects and talents on ones application including not just academics. His point was that he opposes the idea that a school has one set of standards for what ‘well rounded application’ means for someone they recruit to play on a team and another set of standards for a ‘well rounded application’ for everyone else. Everyone should go through the same admissions process. I fail to see why some people are so strongly oppose to that simple idea.”</p>
<p>This is where we need to differentiate between well rounded individuals and well rounded classes. Again, many prestigious US universities are looking for a well rounded class, but love applicants that have a passion. We have heard that time and time again. Applicants with a passion for a sport that is strong enough to make them a competive Division I athlete is pretty impressive, just as applicant with some other passion that make them nationally recognized. Think of it as a point system. Admittees need 100 points. Perfect test scores and GPA get 80 points, 2100 SATs and 4.0 get 60. Internationally recognized talents and passions get 80 points, while those known nationally in their field get 60. (There are very few recruited athletes that are not known nationally in their field.) In either case you need something else to get you in, but its certainly a head start.</p>
<p>I think for a lot of folks when sports are mentioned it is assumed it is football or basketball (revenue sports). However, there are many other sports that are available at colleges and are recruited. These student very often have profiles that are equivalent to the student who get in without sports, so there is no reduction in quality of the student body through this process. And sometime earlier this year someone posted on another forum that Stanford’s football team had a fairly large number of NMS on it.</p>
<p>Before anyone else suggests that I just pack up and leave the country I must confess that I am intentionally playing devils advocate a bit here and trying to wind some folks up to see the variety of arguments that are brought forth. If you read my original post you can see I was just trying to get a debate and discussion of ideas going so people can stop suggesting that I’m just some sort of idiot naive wacko who should just move abroad ;-). I often do get into heated debates with folks on both sides of this issue so I was trying to see what new arguments people would bring forward to support the American model of admissions. </p>
<p>My own personal view (the real one now) is that yes it is all about a well rounded picture and I like the ‘100 points’ example that was made. As mentioned the Oxbridge admission system is purely focused on academic and intellectual brilliance although I do still find it very interesting that sports still plays a huge role in these schools even without making it a specific part of the admissions process. My only main serious criticism of the US system is when the academic side of things is simply not taken seriously at all and the individual is there simply to play sports for a few years before trying to turn pro (this practice is essentially isolated to some D1 schools and mainly with football and basketball). In those limited cases I do have a big problem with it because colleges aren’t there purely to serve as farm teams for the pros with recruits that never graduate. However the vast majority of college athletes are far more rounded and recognize that they are there first and foremost to get a degree.</p>
<p>It appears that recruitment is even an issue in the famous Oxford/Cambridge Boat Race.</p>
<p>"Are there too many foreign oarsmen in the Boat Race?</p>
<p>Wednesday March 29, 2006
The Guardian</p>
<p>Tim Foster Olympic gold medallist, Oxford Blue 1997</p>
<p>Yes</p>
<p>There is a real debate to be had about the balance of the two Boat Race crews race this year. The numbers tell their own story: there will be five British rowers competing and 11 from Germany, North America, Australia and France. My question is this: “What effect does that have on young British hopefuls at Oxford or Cambridge who are trying to break into the Boat Race squads?”</p>
<p>Let’s be clear, there always will be a place for internationals and foreign students in the Boat Race - that has always been part of the event’s tradition. It is a wonderful event for any rower to compete in. But as a supporter of British rowing, I feel it is a shame that not enough up-and-coming British rowers are being given this opportunity. This is especially true when, with the 2012 Olympics being held in London, we need more British talent than ever to come through to international level.</p>
<p>Of course it’s easy to see the reasons for such recruitment of foreign rowers and I would not blame the universities themselves. They live in a highly competitive world and they have to compete to win, and that does involve recruiting the best talent from around the world.</p>
<p>Major sponsorship and two competitive, top-class programmes have helped create this imbalance, but there is a wider picture: the fact that each university loses £3,000 a year on every English undergraduate only increases the pressure for both institutions to create courses that are more profitable and in turn, appeal to many of the international rowers who come to race.</p>
<p>I can look at my own experience. Our crew was a mixture of talents, with five undergraduate rowers. I was a postgraduate at Oxford in 1997 but in my crew that year there were three British rowers who went on to win a gold medal at the Sydney Olympics. It is a crucial model to follow if the development of rowing in this country is to really prosper, as it can.</p>
<p>This debate is taking part in a wider context and I’m sure that many of those who watch the race on Sunday will relate the issue to the recent arguments about the composition of football teams like Arsenal and Chelsea. It’s right that there is a national debate about how to achieve the right mix for British sports teams.</p>
<p>It’s a debate for which there are no easy answers, though. I would not wish to be anything but proud of the Boat Race and the way it has always reflected the wider world, whoever competes. But in a race where Oxford’s young Robin Ejsmond-Frey is the only British rower from both sides who isn’t already a full international, it’s right to pause and question if the current balance is working.</p>
<p>One thing is certain: it will be great contest this Sunday. These are two fantastic, top-quality crews. Both would put in strong showings in the final of world championship events and I’m sure the battle on the Thames will be an epic. But I hope, in the long run, that the race can find more room for young British talent.</p>
<p>Tim Foster is commentating on the 152nd Boat Race; coverage starts on ITV1 at 3.30pm on Sunday</p>
<p>Barney Williams Olympic silver medallist, Oxford Blue 2005</p>
<p>No</p>
<p>I love the Boat Race and the experience of competing in this unique event has been life-changing and pivotal in my career as a sportsman and as an academic. I don’t think the race has ever been designed for British rowers. It’s there for the students who are at Oxford and Cambridge universities, no matter where they come from.</p>
<p>Both universities have always been about producing excellence, not just in an academic but also in a sporting environment. The current make-up of the crews is a reflection of the need that Oxford and Cambridge have to pursue that excellence. Both universities have to survive in an increasingly competitive academic world, so naturally they want to attract the best students.</p>
<p>I know how crucial marketing is from my own experiences of the millions of dollars which business schools in North America spend on it. Well, for Oxford and Cambridge the Boat Race is one of the most effective marketing tools they have. In fact it was the stories I heard from former Blues about this amazing contest that led me to take the “once in a lifetime” chance to compete in the race when it was offered.</p>
<p>I’m sure that those who watch the Boat Race don’t want to see a race with just British rowers if they are not also the best rowers that are currently available. They want to see a great contest and in the past few years there have been some fantastic races produced by so much talent.</p>
<p>Let’s not forget that London can decide if it really does want to turn its attention towards the Tideway on a Sunday afternoon. They have an abundance of choices: football, rugby and formula one. I’m a sports fan but one reason I’ll watch the Boat Race is the intensity and high standard of the competition that it brings.</p>
<p>Of course the availability of television sponsorship has meant that both universities have tried to raise the bar of their performances and that has meant looking for the best students around. But let’s be clear. These men are at Oxbridge not because of money, or sporting potential, but because they are fantastically gifted student athletes. For example, we have doctors taking a year out to do cutting-edge research, row in a fantastic race and then return to their hospitals.</p>
<p>What would happen if one of the universities decided to turn the clock back and have only undergraduates, or non-internationals? They would be well beaten. It’s not going to happen.</p>
<p>I think there is a strong British presence in the race. Five of the 16 rowers this year are British and I know the coaches are keen to appeal to more British athletes. The standard of British rowers is increasing at grassroots level and that will filter through.</p>
<p>I suppose the danger is that if you start recruiting actively then you might get a lot of people on one-year courses who don’t appreciate the tremendous tradition and integrity behind the Boat Race. But with Sean Bowden as coach and with people like Dan Topolski around, it’s my feeling that whether or not the rowers are British they will take the history of this race very seriously indeed."</p>
<p>A relative by marriage was the stroke of the Harvard crew, and subsequently spent a year at Oxford during which he was the stroke of the Oxford crew. They won Henley. I doubt very much that he was “recruited.” He also rowed in the Olympics. But that was during the Dark Ages, of course.</p>
<p>Consolation: Not so much the dark ages, but I bet back then top universities didn’t reject entire class-worths of valedictorians, and stuff like that.</p>
<p>He was, IIRC, the val at his top drawer NE prep school, so he was a shoo-in for H anyway especially then but even now. But it was Oxford that I meant did not recruit him, to my knowledge.</p>
<p>But yes, you are correct.</p>