Stanford demands Nobel laureate Malala Yousafzai take SATs

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If I were such a university, I would admit her without question, but I’d need her to check the application boxes first, however halfheartedly. Why? Because she’s going to be asked to do check silly boxes every day in every class! I don’t want to have to expel Malala, and I’m certainly not going to automatically graduate her the way I’m (more or less) automatically admitting her. So I need some way of measuring whether she’s actually interested in being an undergraduate who’s going to follow directions and earn 32 semester credits. If she won’t follow the rules at the admissions stage, even knowing that she’s guaranteed a good result, then I would assume she’s going to keep wanting special treatment.

I should add that I feel very confident that Malala would not ASK to be relieved of the requirements imposed on other applicants. But in this hypothetical, if she did, the universities should not cave, or they’re going to have much bigger problems down the road.

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I think it would be silly to hold to the requirement if there were any good reason why Malala couldn’t take the SAT. Since we have no cause to believe this would be an obstacle for her – or that she has requested an exemption – why shouldn’t she take the exam?

I do agree that, assuming she earns an acceptable score (which I’m going to define as 1800 or higher), she should get into any American college she wants to attend.

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RE: “the hard and fast requirements are on the Stanford website and are probably no more than submit an app, academic record, and test score. Maybe some recs as well.”

You need to correct yourself: yes, these are “requirements,” but it is the Admissions Committee that decides whether they are, indeed, “hard and fast.” In other words, they can do what they want, requirements or no.

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I am puzzled by both aspects of PurpleTitan’s post #39, because both issues were already answered in my post #35. The reason that many universities want the SAT or ACT is that grading standards are highly variable across US schools, and the standardized tests provide a uniform measure of academic readiness. I would not support using AP exams for this purpose in the US, because availability of AP courses and the level of preparation that the courses provide for the APs is about as variable as grading standards, from high school to high school. I also believe that the SAT is less affected by the high school’s academic offerings than the SAT II Achievement tests are.

In the case of an applicant from Britain, the uniform measure of academic readiness is provided by the GCSEs and A level exams. Oxford and Cambridge have their own supplemental exams in particular subjects.

I have not seen any indication that Malala is actually interested in attending Stanford. As I mentioned in post #35, I anticipate that she will attend Oxford after completing A levels.

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As far as I can tell, Malala is not asking to be let out of any academic requirements. That’s just silly.

She took 10 GCSEs, and scored 6 A* and 4 A grades. The A* grades were concentrated in mathematics and science. I see no problem with the A grades. Young students in Britain learn a great deal of British history before they are 12. (“I know the Kings of England and I quote the fights historical, from Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical.”) Malala caught up on British history and British literature admirably.

I think that suggesting that she would score 1800 on the SATs is ridiculous. If she takes them, which I doubt that she will do, because I doubt that she is interested in American universities, I am quite confident that she will score substantially higher.

Also, as far as I can tell, she plans to take A levels. These are required for admission to British universities, where I believe she actually wants to go.

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@QuantMech, where did you answer the question (which you have avoided for the second time) “do you believe that Oxbridge should take her without requiring A-Levels?”

Please point that out to me. And why do you refuse to answer my question?

If you believe that Oxbridge should have their own requirements, why do you believe that Stanford should not have their own requirements?

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She is planning to take A levels, from all indications. I don’t know whether Oxford would take her without A levels or not. They do take Americans without A levels, but with APs, which I don’t think are as difficult.

Oxford is an academically oriented university. Their academic requirements make sense in the context of what the university requires once a student has matriculated.

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It seems that this entire “controversy” has simply been invented by a few journalists who have more time to tweet than brains to think. As far as I know, Ms. Yousafzai hasn’t asked to be let out of any requirements. But even though the whole premise is hypothetical, I’ll give my opinion anyway.

Ms. Yousafzai was given the Nobel Peace Prize for her fight for the rights of children and girls to receive an education. Using her status to gain exemption from Stanford’s educational or admissions requirements would be contrary to everything she’s stood for, and from everything I’ve read about this brave young woman I can’t imagine that she’d even think of using her Nobel prize to get out of any academic requirements. She’s a very important symbol to many, and this would tarnish her legacy. I think it’s unlikely that she’d ever want an exemption or would even accept one if offered.

(For that matter, I hope Stanford has enough institutional integrity that they wouldn’t make a special exception for her unless there was some truly exceptional, valid reason why she couldn’t sit for her SATs/ACTs. If they started making exceptions for her, or for some great athlete, or for some wealthy donor’s kid, then if I were a sitting Board member I know I’d be asking whether the admissions office was being run by people with sufficient ethical standards. Having a Nobel prize winner as a student is wonderful, but it isn’t worth compromising the university’s integrity and Stanford will soldier on just fine without her. Others may feel differently.)

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@QuantMech, I asked you whether you felt Oxford should require A-levels from her (and presumably to meet their standards).

You seem to think they should. Yet you also think it’s ridiculous that Stanford requires that she meets a far less demanding requirement. You do realize that the combination of those 2 positions may strike some as condescending/arrogant, don’t you?

@al2simon, I agree with you. Some folks believe that any school should be honored to have her, and I believe that she would certainly be an asset, yet I also believe that academic institutions that not only strive to be but are among the top academic powerhouses in the world should not have to waive their very basic academic requirements for anyone. No one has yet satisfactorily answered why they feel that Stanford should be test-optional for her but no one else.

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“I also believe that academic institutions that not only strive to be but are among the top academic powerhouses in the world should not have to waive their very basic academic requirements for anyone.”

This.

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I think Stanford should also be test optional for the kid who cured cancer.

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IMHO, ‘oxford isn’t all that big a deal’. :slight_smile:

They are a stickler for paperwork. They turn down people from US on a regular basis for not having taken their own test for specific subjects.

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I know that Cambridge has an additional admissions test on top of the A levels, in certain subjects (different tests for different subjects). In fact, some colleges within Cambridge University require one (in certain subjects) and others do not. You can find several sample tests of this type online, and reach your own conclusions about them.

In connection with Oxford, if texaspg’s reference to “their own test” is a reference to this sort of admissions test, that’s not “paperwork.” I suspect the additional test is relatively demanding (just my opinion–you can form your own view if Oxford puts samples online, as Cambridge does). They want the test in order to assess academic capability, beyond the information available from A levels.

I don’t see a point in my prescribing what Oxford “should” do. I know they will admit American students without A levels, because we have a different system. If they nonetheless require an additional, higher level exam (in some, but not all subjects, as I understand the practice in Cambridge), I am fine with their requiring that of American students.

Oxford does not practice “holistic” admissions, though. Their admissions are academically based.

I’m not prescribing anything to Stanford, either. Their admissions staffers can do as they think best. But I will still think it is silly for them to “demand” the SATs, if anyone actually said that.

Did someone from Stanford admissions specifically state that Malala would have to take the SATs, like anyone else, in order to be admitted? I don’t know that happened. If it did, perhaps they are preemptively covering themselves, in case she has no interest at all in going to Stanford. (“Oh, she didn’t take the SATs, so of course we wouldn’t take her.” An earlier poster suggested that if she went to Harvard instead, Stanford could claim that they had stuck to their requirements, and Harvard waived them.)

Also, I think it is inappropriate to suggest that Malala would be trying to get out of a requirement, when as far as I know, she has never shown any interest in Stanford. And when people make guesses about how she would do on the SATs if she took them, I think they are ignoring her GCSE results.

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@QuantMech, why is it silly or ridiculous for Stanford to demand/require the SAT/ACT but it isn’t ridiculous for Oxbridge to demand/require A-Levels and possibly even more tests?

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“Anyone know if Stanford gave Tiger Woods an SAT waiver?”

Even if Stanford did, the NCAA didn’t. A student athlete has to go through the NCAA clearing house and you have to submit a transcript (original) from every high school, a final transcript from the graduating HS, test scores, and answer a bunch of questions about drugs, arrests, etc.

There are no waivers for the NCAA clearinghouse. If you don’t submit scores, you don’t play. in D1 or D2.

Missy Franklin took her SATs while she was preparing for the Olympics even though she was an A student and could clearly get the minimum required score. Some players can’t get a high enough score to play, and they don’t play no matter how good they are at their sports.

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There have been a number of Peace Prize winners who weren’t academics. Lech Welsea, not sure if he even went to high school or college. Mother Teresa was not Stanford material. If Princess Diana had won for her work in ridding the world of land minds, should she have gotten into Stanford (or Oxford/Cambridge) without having the academic background?

I don’t think requiring all the standard admission steps is unusual.

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PurpleTitan, #73, one statement that I have made several times is that Oxford and Cambridge will admit American students without A levels. They recognize the difference in the pre-college systems between the US and the UK. Most of the colleges will take APs in lieu of A levels. The Oxford practice would be analogous to having American universities honor A level results, for students from the UK.

Before posters comment again about the need to uphold the academic standards of Stanford, I think it would be worthwhile to review Malala’s GCSE results (the pre A-level test, which A levels usually follow in about 2 years or so). They are outstanding.

I definitely anticipate that Malala will take A levels, because she is being educated in the UK, and wants to go to one of the universities in the UK (to the best of my knowledge).

If there is any basis for the “tempest in a teapot” that this thread constitutes, it was probably a casual remark by a Stanford admissions staffer, who had little time to consider the response.

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I have personal experience with an applicant applying to Oxford. This person had almost perfect SAT scores, 4 perfect subject test scores and so on. There was nothing on the British common app that was providing guidelines saying that if one applied to a specific program, they needed to take one of those specific subject tests which is administered only in some places in US and only on specific dates. They have a deadline on October 15th or so but after filing you find out the test should have been taken by the time of the application.

Nothing in their literature mentions these subject specific tests administered by Oxford/Cambridge specified agency that must be taken by the US applicants also.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/entrance-requirements

Btw, I attended an Oxford presentation two years in a row where they never mentioned requiring the special subject tests… So whoopdeedaa for Oxford.

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I can’t say about Oxford, but the special Cambridge test requirements in History and Computer Science were apparent on the subject web sites, when I looked at them a few years back.

Not all Cambridge colleges require the additional subject-related test. Perhaps this is true for the Oxford colleges as well. Also, not all subjects require a supplemental test.

It appears that the general university site and presentations could do a better job of linking to the special test requirements by college and subject area.

As an American studying in England, I did find that there were things one was expected to “know,” that seemed to come out of nowhere, so I can certainly sympathize.

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@QuantMech, note that GCSE’s aren’t even the final uni entrance exams in England. Would Oxbridge take someone who had no A-Levels regardless of how stellar their GSCE’s are? Yet you think it’s silly and ridiculous that Stanford, an American uni with a 90% American student body, who have no chance to take either GCSE’s or A-Levels, should take GSCE’s without requiring the SAT/ACT.

Which brings up another point: An American student has no way to take either GSCE’s or A-Levels in the US. So of course UK unis don’t require American students to take them. However, a British student certainly can take the SAT in the UK. At a bunch of places, in fact.

So if you believe that Stanford should take the GCSE’s in lieu of the SAT/ACT, do you believe that they should take the Chinese Gaokao in lieu of the SAT/ACT as well? What about the Icelandic Studentsprof? Should Stanford be compelled to take Studentprof results in lieu of the SAT/ACT as well?