Not all people in lower income zip codes are lower income.
Penn to require a test score for class of 2026
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It would seem as though Columbia, Northwestern, Chicago and Duke are the only ivy/T10 types left that are still TO. UChicago has been for many years pre-covid; they likely stay that way. Wonder if the other three change to required.
Edit: forgot Princeton…
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I wouldn’t be surprised to see Columbia, NU and/or Duke go back to test required. BC is widely rumored to be going back for 2026 too, but no announcement yet. I also wouldn’t be surprised for the state of NC to require tests for their top publics. Time will tell. I expect the majority of schools will stay TO, especially the ones that were TO before the pandemic as you mentioned for UChicago.
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And TO doesn’t necessarily mean TO.
If you are from a wealthy school, are not first gen etc, are your odds of Chicago good when 3/4 of enrollees submitted a test.
Duke doesn’t publish but it’s 21/22 CDs - latest I could find - is over 90%.
TO - sure. Realistic for all to get in ? I’d hypothesize no. Yes, they say it won’t hurt but I’m not a believer of this.
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The CDS doesn’t indicate what % do not submit scores. If you are assuming % submitting scores = % submitting SAT + % submitting ACT, you overestimate because some students submit both SAT and ACT, leading to double counting. Some colleges also include non-submitters in CDS percentages (they ask non-submitter matriculating students to send scores to college in summer before attending, if available, and report those scores in CDS).
According to Duke publications (https://admissions.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/DukeFastFacts2022.pdf ), in 2022 25% of Duke admits did not submit test scores . This percentage in isolation is not enough information to conclude whether Duke is being truthful when they say students applying without scores are not at a disadvantage.
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Yes but double submitting is likely not huge. It’s unlikely a large % even take both.
Nonetheless my hypothesis is that at many schools, if you are unhooked, TO can be hurtful.
In Duke’s case (thanks for finding that #), I’m guessing athletes are an overweighted potion of that 25%.
It’s true, unless schools post fully detailed stats on TO vs non TO accepted or enrollees, all we have is our beliefs.
I would go further and say that unless your hook is FGLI/Rural you’d better summit scores. If you are an Ivy legacy, IME they not only want a test score, they want a very high one. Athletes have also been required to submit scores as part of their pre-read for a couple of cycles now, even when schools are still TO.
TO is Test Preferred at many schools. If you pay attention to the language around testing, CDS details, etc it is clear enough that is the case.
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SLACs on the other hand seem to really accept a large chunk of their incoming class as TO.
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There is one thread to discuss race and admissions, and this isn’t it. I’d link the correct thread, but the user knows full well where it is. Several posts deleted.
Additionally, thoughts on whether a student should apply TO is best placed on a thread where an actual student has such a question about their specific situation; hypotheticals on this thread don’t add much to the conversation.
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There is a good amount of variation for a wide variety of reasons. For example stats for USC 2024 fall admission are below. 59% of the new USC class of 2028 did not submit scores – the vast majority. This may seem high out of context, but when you consider that only 24% of HS students in CA take the SAT, and USC’s website language does not suggest a preference for scores (“Applicants will not be penalized or put at a disadvantage if they choose not to submit SAT or ACT scores. USC’s admission process has always been holistic, and we are confident in our ability to identify student potential using the totality of what is presented to us, whether or not this includes test scores.”), the low score submitting seems more reasonable.
Applicants who submitted scores had higher admit rate than applicants who did not submit scores. However, this tells you little information about whether students with scores were notably favored, as scores tend to be correlated with other portions of application. For example, students who choose not to submit scores because their scores were low also tend to have lower grades, lower course rigor, worse LORs, worse ECs, etc. To evaluate the influence of scores in admission, one needs to instead compare applicants who have similar demographics, grades, course rigor, LORs, ECs… and see how admission decisions changed for those who submitted scores and those who did not.
USC is a strange place. They tend to go out of their way accepting kids from our school who are into sports and who have very few APs. I know that’s not who they take from every school, but it’s clear they aren’t always looking for top scores/class rigor. I could absolutely see how TO kids would be very welcome there as well as in many other schools. Also rigor outside of STEM (I can’t speaking STEM there) is nonexistent. Kids can really thrive there with all sorts of background.
Caltech on the other hand, a completely different ballgame. Every school has its own unique ways given their focus.
In our part of CA only two sets of kids take SATs - sports recruits and top kids looking at top privates. Everybody else doesn’t bother.
I suspect as more places start requiring test scores, more kids will opt in to test.
Does anybody know if UCs are required to be test blind forever or is there a time limit? Basically do they have to go to court to reinstate SAT requirement if they so decide?
NU is confirmed TO for another year, at least, per instagram. The standardized test policy webpage removed the 2024-25 reference.
However, my caution with NU would be similar to this:
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79% at Northwestern.
I’d assume - but don’t know - that athletes are more likely to be TO - so that amount remaining isn’t huge.
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Exactly.
Only 54% of admitted students at Swarthmore submitted a test score (assuming zero overlap with SAT and ACT). Their 25 percentile is 1480. So at least 25% admitted had a lower score than 1480. Are you assuming 46% of kids admitted are the ones with even lower SAT score?
If TO kids are doing well in college, then I don’t know if there is an incentive to go back to tests for those SLACs.
I imagine that evaluating TO apps might be easier for LACs, as generally they’d have smaller numbers of apps compared to universities.
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I presume this is based on the CDS again, assuming nobody takes both the SAT and ACT. This of course is not an accurate assumption. I suspect the actual number is closer to 70% submitters / 30% test optional. However, it’s largely a matter of speculation, if the college doesn’t publish stats…
More clear is the number of athletes. Approximately 6% of undergrads at Northwestern are NCAA athletes.
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USC is looking to accept students who meet their various hurdles AND that will yield. Their yield predictive analytic model helps them make those decisions. Some yield models put applicants in deciles, some do it in other ways. Yield is important to many schools that aren’t at the tippy top. Note that USC is adding ED for Marshall next year which should help increase their yield.
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